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Old 08-24-2013, 07:21 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by texaswoodworker View Post

.357 Magnum, not Sig. Most .357 mags are only 5 or 6 rounds.

5.7mm? Your carrying basically a weaker version of .223? Why? I get the mag capacity argument, but it seems like that's where it ends. IIRC, they have a bad habit of over penetration and not a lot of knock down power per round. Not bashing the round, just curious as to why you chose it for SD.
Well...... the round was designed to replace the 9mm and has similar ballistic performance characteristics. The pistol weighs 19oz empty and even fully loaded with a 30rd magazine is lighter than my 1911 is empty. 20-30 shots per magazine. You said said a weaker .223, its like mini hand version of an AR, how awsome is that idea. Accuracy over distance, extremely low recoil which makes for faster follow up shots, tubler round just like the AR (shoot the bad guy in the stomach and the round exits out his shoulder), I carry my pistol with 2 spare mags and I can have between 61 and 91 rounds.

Just some of my reasoning.

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Old 08-24-2013, 07:45 PM   #42
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Well...... the round was designed to replace the 9mm and has similar ballistic performance characteristics. The pistol weighs 19oz empty and even fully loaded with a 30rd magazine is lighter than my 1911 is empty. 20-30 shots per magazine. You said said a weaker .223, its like mini hand version of an AR, how awsome is that idea. Accuracy over distance, extremely low recoil which makes for faster follow up shots, tubler round just like the AR (shoot the bad guy in the stomach and the round exits out his shoulder), I carry my pistol with 2 spare mags and I can have between 61 and 91 rounds.

Just some of my reasoning.

Attachment 115507
But still, the possibility of a round over penetrating (and possibly hitting someone) and not having a lot of knockdown power per round makes me weary of it as a SD weapon.

As a range weapon, I think it would be awesome, and I want one. As a SD weapon, I'm not so sure.

As for ballistics, the energy is similar, but the velocities are WAY off. you have a 30 gr bullet traveling at over 2000 fps vs a 124 gr bullet traveling at over 1000 fps. To me, that equals over penetration and not a energy transferred to the target since the bullet leaves the target.

Again, not trying to bash the round, just interesting that you'd choose it.
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Old 08-24-2013, 07:46 PM   #43
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What about ammo availability? And cost? That round is not really stocked anywhere around these parts...

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Old 08-24-2013, 08:19 PM   #44
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Again, not trying to bash the round, just interesting that you'd choose it.
I think the round is designed to tumble in the body and not over penetrate. Maybe that round is not available for civilian use.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:28 PM   #45
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I think the round is designed to tumble in the body and not over penetrate. Maybe that round is not available for civilian use.
The round was also designed to penetrate bullet proof vests with the proper ammo. Just because it can tumble, doesn't mean it won't over penetrate. It's a very small bullet traveling at a very high speed.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:34 PM   #46
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So plan for the best hope against the worst?

Doesn't sound like good survival skills to me.

Cops accuracy under fire is poor because of a lack of range time?

Maybe partially but not wholly.

In my career there have been 3 times when I have drawn my weapon and actually pointed it at another person, fully expecting to have to end their life it. Each time it was an extremely high stress situation. Each time the gun felt like it weighed 10lbs, my vision seemed to narrow and even slightly blur a little. Yelling at the top of my lungs for them to stop doing what they were doing wasn't helping my sight picture either. In one instance I noticed in the middle of it all that my front sight was shaking up and down slightly.

Luckily I did not have to fire any of those times. Each time as I lowered the weapon I noticed the gun in my hands shaking slightly. One of the subjects I handcuffed directly after holstering my weapon and found even that simple task which I do sometimes 10 or more times a day to be slightly cumbersome.

I would like to think my accuracy would be better than 11%, but after those experiences, I know I want as many rounds as I can have to stop the threat. And 6 isn't enough for me. I want to be sure I have more than enough. More than enough isn't enough for me. ;-)

Edit: edited the story slightly for accuracy.

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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

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Old 08-24-2013, 08:43 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by DeltaF
So plan for the best hope against the worst?

Doesn't sound like good survival skills to me.

Cops accuracy under fire is poor because of a lack of range time?

Maybe partially but not wholly.

In my career there have been 3 times when I have drawn my weapon expecting to have to end someone's life with it. Each time it was an extremely high stress situation. Each time the gun felt like it weighed 10lbs, my vision seemed to narrow and even slightly blur a little.

Luckily I did not have to fire any of those times. As I lowered my weapon , I could see my front sight shaking slightly. One of the subjects I handcuffed directly after holstering my weapon and found even that simple task which I do sometimes 10 or more times a day to be slightly cumbersome.

I would like to think my accuracy would be better than 11%, but after those experiences, I know I want as many rounds as I can have to stop the threat. And 6 isn't enough for me. I want to be sure I have more than enough. More than enough isn't enough for me. ;-)
Again, to each his own. I'm not trying to discredit your experiences or training.

I'm also not a cop, and most people aren't. In my belief, most defense situations a regular citizen are going to find themselves in, the trigger probably won't even be pulled. if it is, statistics show that the vast majority of time 1-3 shots is more than enough to "stop the threat," which, given today's legal-minded society, is what the goal is.

My goal is to not kill anyone (including the aggressor) while still preserving my own life and those close to me. In that regard, if I do have to pull the trigger, and I miss, with a six shot revolver I have less chances of killing an innocent person who isn't involved in the situation.

Like I said, to each his own and I won't judge someone because they don't agree with me in terms of CCW. The entire process is intensely personal.

I pray that neither you nor I (nor anyone else) will have to use our weapon in self-defense during our life times. I also pray that should the need arise, we hit the target in the first shot and subsequent shots are not necessary.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:49 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by duddie10

The 19s not much bigger the the 27 right? Maybe i will get the 19 and try out some of the 9mm sd ammo on some gel blocks. I do like the feel of the 19 and thats what a friend of mine let me shoot at the farm. Real easy to get fallow up shots back on target. Choices wish i had a room full of 100 dollar bills. Id just get obe of every thing. Lol
The 19 is between the 26 and the original 17 in size!! I own and carry them both!! The 26 is just small enough that it makes CC a little more easier and versatile with the 26! The recoil is slightly higher in the smaller 26! That's the only thing that would make me hesitate about the 27, same size as the 26 but bigger caliber obviously! But the 19 is the jewel of all Glocks if you ask me!!
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:05 PM   #49
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I'm also not a cop, and most people aren't. In my belief, most defense situations a regular citizen are going to find themselves in, the trigger probably won't even be pulled. if it is, statistics show that the vast majority of time 1-3 shots is more than enough to "stop the threat," which, given today's legal-minded society, is what the goal is.
I do respect your choice in a CCW and I wouldn't expect to change your mind. Or even try to change it really. But I don't think there's any difference in the role of a cop stopping a bad guy from doing bad things to him/others and a CCP stopping a bad guy from doing bad things to him/others. The only difference is that it is more likely that the cop will find himself in that situation.

Legally, you are justified in shooting that person until they stop doing bad things. Be that 3 shots or 300. The law doesn't care. And if they show up the news media is going to twist your story to fit their agenda no matter what.

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I pray that neither you nor I (nor anyone else) will have to use our weapon in self-defense during our life times. I also pray that should the need arise, we hit the target in the first shot and subsequent shots are not necessary.
AMEN!
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:06 PM   #50
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statistics show that the vast majority of time 1-3 shots is more than enough to "stop the threat," which, given today's legal-minded society, is what the goal is
Yes and statistics also show that you are very unlikely to ever need to use your firearm for defence. But that doesint stop you carrying one. So you carry a firearm just in case but not extra ammo just in case strange logic. Also hitting the target when the bullets are coming your way could be a lot harder than when you are shooting at the range.
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