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Old 08-27-2013, 01:42 AM   #151
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Huh? That makes absolutely no sense at all. "Civilian" self defense situations are usually identical to LEO self defense situations. The only difference is that LEOs get dispatched, and "civilians" are usually there by accident. Maybe a difference where we're running high risk warrants but usually we do that with tac teams.ll

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Old 08-27-2013, 02:12 AM   #152
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Huh? That makes absolutely no sense at all. "Civilian" self defense situations are usually identical to LEO self defense situations. The only difference is that LEOs get dispatched, and "civilians" are usually there by accident. Maybe a difference where we're running high risk warrants but usually we do that with tac teams.ll
No, I disagree with that. Civilians usually find themselves in a self defense situation because some punk is holding a gun to their head demanding money, or trying a rape a girl, or it could be anything else. I've never heard of someone trying to rape or steal from a cop. Cops are in dangerous situations because their jobs requires them to be. Therefore, it is more likely a cop will run into a meth head or someone on whom a few shots wouldn't be effective.

You're right, cops get dispatched, civilians obviously don't. What that means is that a cop needs to expect to potentially be in a dangerous situation. Civilians shouldn't expect to be attacked every time they leave their house. If someone thought he was going to be attacked at any possible time, wouldn't he just stay in his house? Yes, civilians (especially those who carry a weapon) should have a higher level of situational awareness. But that doesn't mean they walk around thinking they're going to be attacked at all times. Yes, I agree, train often and carry as much ammo as you see fit, in whatever gun and caliber you see fit. But again, sometimes common sense has to rule out. Given the "capacity" argument, I'm inclined to think that no amount of rounds is ever comforting or sufficient.

Me, however, I will continue to play the odds that I won't be running into a meth head when I'm going to the Commissary or the gas station. If I'm walking around at night in a city, I might carry some more ammo (when I actually have my CCW permit here).

Let's think about one last thing: there are millions of people who walk around every single day, without a weapon on them. Yes, while some of those people are attacked and could prolly use a weapon, the vast majority of people in this country and most developed countries go about their day to day lives without weapons, and they live to ripe old ages.

There is preparedness, and then there is paranoia. Considering the media and politicians are already against us, I think it would be wise for us to not cross that line too often.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:20 AM   #153
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Sometimes you need more ammo. So if you can comfortably carry it, carry it. If you can't, then don't, but don't act like its impossible you'll ever need it and claim that those who do are "paranoid." ;-)

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Old 08-27-2013, 02:31 AM   #154
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Sometimes you need more ammo. So if you can comfortably carry it, carry it. If you can't, then don't, but don't act like its impossible you'll ever need it and claim that those who do are "paranoid." ;-)
Well, I think carrying more than one extra magazine is a bit paranoid, to be perfectly honest, unless you're on duty as a police officer or deployed to a warzone.

When I did carry in NC, I never carried an extra magazine, by the way. I carried one 10 round magazine loaded with .40 S&W. I never wished I had more or felt under-gunned.

That's the way I see it.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:37 AM   #155
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If a mag is single stacked I carry 2 if its double stacked I carry 1. Rounds to fire are close to the same.

If I'm on duty I have more than 1 weapon with at least 2 extra mags and in the vehicle I keep a shotgun with a bandolier and/or an m4 + an 8 mag tac vest. Now if I carried all that all the time off duty I'd consider that paranoid.

Edit: by the way, sometimes I AM paranoid. :shrug: ;-)

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Old 08-27-2013, 02:46 AM   #156
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So we now know the two main proponents of high capacity in this thread carry at most 1-2 extra magazines. I feel that sufficiently makes the entire thread moot. 1-2 extra magazines is pretty much in-line with most who carry a semi-auto for self-defense in a non-duty situation.

Therefore the thread was pointless.

Now, if y'all would like to discuss the benefits of semi-auto vs revolver, which is almost what this thread has become, I will kindly refer you to this thread...

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/arguments-against-not-carrying-revolver-94908/

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Old 08-27-2013, 08:39 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by DeltaF View Post
Huh? That makes absolutely no sense at all. "Civilian" self defense situations are usually identical to LEO self defense situations. The only difference is that LEOs get dispatched, and "civilians" are usually there by accident. Maybe a difference where we're running high risk warrants but usually we do that with tac teams.ll
You're going to tell me that me as a regular guy will expend as much ammo at bad guys as you will while on duty? Are you high!?!?!

You're Right, I don't get called to to some robbery a few time a week spanky. Or maybe your last name is Griffith? I don't try pull over people that don't want to be caught. I don't serve warrants. I don't do anything a cop does other than shoot and I will admit I do that more than most cops. But not at bad guys, because I'M NOT A COP. I have to wait till the bad guy presents to me. There is no way unless you are the cop of my town...that has no cop BTW, that we can run into the same situations out in daily lives. Keep talking like that and your bosses will have you peeing in a cup more often. Hell, the bigger yet still small town I moved from to get here has more instances where police had to shoot someone than I or anyone I know in the area have done in the last several years. It's simple, a cop is much more likely to need to defend themselves than I will. But maybe you're lucky and have no real trouble where you're at. That's really good news. And I do mean that sincerely.
But by and large LEO are going to need their weapon and more ammo than any civilian. The only reason I shoot more ammo than some is I really need to know that I can put them where I want them at will. I also enjoy it a great deal....Very relaxing

I go by what I know. I've not had to draw a weapon in my or my families defense often. And like I said I could have used the same mag and never reloaded in those instances. I've carried a gun for a good while, 24 years now. and have not spent 9 rounds in my defense. And I have had to defend myself. That speaks volumes more than a interwebz cop that says I need to be carrying more than one high cap mag. You keep repeating how you know because you are a cop. I'm saying I know because I have lived through what I've been confronted with. As well as loooking at what has been the case time and time again...for peopel that are not cops.

I used to do the I need a lot of ammo thing but I just got tired of carrying more things around than I needed. My pistol only needs to get me in the house or to my truck anyway. I have more party favors there. But frankly if I find myself in a situation where I need 50 rounds of pistol ammo I must have messed up really bad. I shouldn't have taken that left turn at Albuquerque.

It's a persons right to carry as much ammo as they see fit. They're packing it around..Not me. It's also a persons right to say carrying a few high cap mags and a back up gun is overkill. Maybe if I find myself back in a bigger city again I'll change my tune. But the last trip I made I did with a 1911 and two mags, one mag I left in the truck.

....And some how I'm still here to tell the tale.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:40 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumJunkie

You're going to tell me that me as a regular guy will expend as much ammo at bad guys as you will while on duty? Are you high!?!?!

You're Right, I don't get called to to some robbery a few time a week spanky. Or maybe your last name is Griffith? I don't try pull over people that don't want to be caught. I don't serve warrants. I don't do anything a cop does other than shoot and I will admit I do that more than most cops. But not at bad guys, because I'M NOT A COP. I have to wait till the bad guy presents to me. There is no way unless you are the cop of my town...that has no cop BTW, that we can run into the same situations out in daily lives. Keep talking like that and your bosses will have you peeing in a cup more often. Hell, the bigger yet still small town I moved from to get here has more instances where police had to shoot someone than I or anyone I know in the area have done in the last several years. It's simple, a cop is much more likely to need to defend themselves than I will. But maybe you're lucky and have no real trouble where you're at. That's really good news. And I do mean that sincerely.
But by and large LEO are going to need their weapon and more ammo than any civilian. The only reason I shoot more ammo than some is I really need to know that I can put them where I want them at will. I also enjoy it a great deal....Very relaxing

I go by what I know. I've not had to draw a weapon in my or my families defense often. And like I said I could have used the same mag and never reloaded in those instances. I've carried a gun for a good while, 24 years now. and have not spent 9 rounds in my defense. And I have had to defend myself. That speaks volumes more than a interwebz cop that says I need to be carrying more than one high cap mag. You keep repeating how you know because you are a cop. I'm saying I know because I have lived through what I've been confronted with. As well as loooking at what has been the case time and time again...for peopel that are not cops.

I used to do the I need a lot of ammo thing but I just got tired of carrying more things around than I needed. My pistol only needs to get me in the house or to my truck anyway. I have more party favors there. But frankly if I find myself in a situation where I need 50 rounds of pistol ammo I must have messed up really bad. I shouldn't have taken that left turn at Albuquerque.

It's a persons right to carry as much ammo as they see fit. They're packing it around..Not me. It's also a persons right to say carrying a few high cap mags and a back up gun is overkill. Maybe if I find myself back in a bigger city again I'll change my tune. But the last trip I made I did with a 1911 and two mags, one mag I left in the truck.

....And some how I'm still here to tell the tale.
I must admit, the 2 of you are entertaining. Much better then most movies. I would long since dropped this thread! But I stay on the edge, waiting for the next haymaker! Do continue, please!
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:49 PM   #159
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You're Right, I don't get called to to some robbery a few time a week spanky. Or maybe your last name is Griffith?

There is no way unless you are the cop of my town...that has no cop BTW, that we can run into the same situations out in daily lives.
No way that a person who is not a cop can run into the situations that cops run into in their day to day lives?

So.... I guess police must patrol... Foreign countries? The moon? Deep space?

Are we like super secret agents? Tracking down big gun running criminals and getting into massive firefights that end in fireballs and explosions? Getting called to bank robberies A FEW TIMES A WEEK?!?!

Wow.... That is a very active view of what we do.... You must be an action movie fan.

Serving high risk warrants is usually done by specialized teams in full tactical gear and armed with battle rifles. If I were going to deal with the kind of calls you're talking about, that would be my load out. Not a pistol and 1 double stacked or 2 single stacked mags. If SHTF and things go nuts like you're imagining they do on a day to day basis, I'm grabbing a shotgun and a bandolier or an M4 and a tac vest with 8 extra mags when I roll up. And so is every other cop who shows up.

A uniform patrol job can be dangerous. Yes, we are sometimes called to deal with violent things that are happening. But guess what? EVERY call I've EVER gone on where violent things were happening had INNOCENT PEOPLE THERE TOO. Its not just the cops and the bad guys firing indiscriminately at one another with no one else around like in the movies dude.

1 extra double stacked or 2 single stacked mags is common sense for an off duty LEO or a CCP holder. They both take up the same amount of space.

Some times you need more ammo. If you can carry it comfortably, fine. If you can't, don't act like you live in a bubble and won't ever need it. And don't act like I'm Andy Griffith because I use common sense. Though you're starting to sound a lot like Barney. Don't lose that 1 bullet in your pocket. ;-)
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:59 PM   #160
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And the myth lives on.

With modern bonded hollow points there is not the huge difference that you claim.

(Picture found here: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#Why%20not%20M193/M855)
This picture is missing something, its about much more distructive the 10mm is on a target.

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