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Old 08-26-2013, 10:15 PM   #141
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...That you will have a reason to use your firearm on another human being.
...
Or a bear, we can always hope.
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:44 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by JW357
I wouldn't even consider a Glock with a 10 round magazine in it "high capacity."

In my view, someone who carries a 10 round magazine with another 15 rounder on his body hasn't fully bought into the capacity argument. He's more concerned with concealability than capacity. If capacity were the "end all, be all" for handgunning, that person with a 10 round magainze would replace it with a 15, and the extra 15 on his belt would turn into a 30 (31? 33? I have no idea what it actually is).

So, for carring 10+1 and another 15, I see little difference between that and someone that carries 8+1 and another 16 (I'm assuming two extra magazines here).

One amounts to 26 and one amounts to 25. One round difference??

Confused yet?
Of course concealment plays some part!! Especially when open carry is against the law!!! 11 is more than 9 and reloading one larger mag vs two smaller ones, if needed is more efficient!! The point I'm making, I have a high capacity option if I choose to use it!! Unlike most of the bigger calibers or revolvers!! I carry a g19 when I feel I can conceal it well!! Living in So. Fl, wearing very light clothing, I do not have the option of hiding a large gun in layers of clothing!! I choose my carry option that best fits my life style and at the same time feeling confident that I am well armed!! I love guns and the right to own and carry them, but there is a few more other things in life to enjoy besides worrying about the perfect weapon, with the perfect caliber, with the perfect ammo, with the perfect capacity!! I'm comfortable and confident with my gun choices and practices. Gun choices, ammo, capacity is choice!! And almost always comes with a Sacrifice of neglecting one benefit to enhance a more desirable one!! "Capacity" or the lack of Capacity is a perfect example of this!!
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:06 PM   #143
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Look, all I'm trying to do is show the inconsistency in the capacity argument. 6/12 shots of .357 Magnum apparently isn't enough, neither is 25 of .45 ACP. But I guess 26 shots of 9mm is enough.

I'm assuming if I recommended capacity guys carry 130 rounds on their person at all times, this would be considered excessive.

So what is the magic number? 25 is too few but 26 is just right, is 45 too many?

Hint: There is no magic number, method of carry, or gun. What matters is that we are armed in whatever manner we see fit. Debating capacity vs caliber, Glock vs M&P, wheel gun vs semi-auto, is all moot. Nothing matters, as long as we're proficient with our chosen piece.

Hints for the debates in my previous sentence: caliber trumps capacity; M&P trounces Glock; wheel gun always wins against semi-auto.

Did I rile any feathers yet?

(BTW, my M&P9c has a 12 round flush fit magazine. Win for M&P vs Glock 26).

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Old 08-26-2013, 11:08 PM   #144
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A lot of baaad assumptions being made here. I'll only address 2 of them.

1) If you are concealed carrying, that means automatically that you are preparing for an extremely unlikely event.

That you will have a reason to use your firearm on another human being.

If you do, you are already dipping into the EXTREMELY UNLIKELY. So why do some of you gentleman automatically decide that its LIKELY the bad guy you will meet will be the kind who dies nicely?

2) Just because I carry a lot of rounds does not mean I am not accurate. And it does not mean that I have to use them all. If the bad guy drops at 1, I am not sending my others down range. But at least I have them if he doesn't. Do I expect to NEED them? No. I don't expect to NEED to shoot someone at all. But I'm preparing for the unexpected sir, not the expected.
Well..It's like this. I've been though it before, and I'm, still here to say I see no needs for that much ammo walking around every day. Out of the times it happened with me I could have used the same 1911 mag and never topped it off between events. And even that was enough to get me to leave that location because bad things semed to happen too often for a single Dad raising a daughter.

Like I said. Carry a belt fed with a few bandoliers for all I care. I just don't see a need. I'm not a cop or a soldier. I don't put myself in situations where I feel a need to be armed like a cop. It's your right to do so and I have no trouble with that. But I don't see a need personally. I draw that on my experience as well as many others that I studied over the years. I've lived a half a century in this planet and didn't do so assuming. I have always since I've carried a pistol trained as often as possible making things as difficult as possible. I'll make every round count. I don't want them flying around past my target.

So no..I don't assume anything. I just deal in facts.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:24 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by JW357
Look, all I'm trying to do is show the inconsistency in the capacity argument. 6/12 shots of .357 Magnum apparently isn't enough, neither is 25 of .45 ACP. But I guess 26 shots of 9mm is enough.

I'm assuming if I recommended capacity guys carry 130 rounds on their person at all times, this would be considered excessive.

So what is the magic number? 25 is too few but 26 is just right, is 45 too many?

Hint: There is no magic number, method of carry, or gun. What matters is that we are armed in whatever manner we see fit. Debating capacity vs caliber, Glock vs M&P, wheel gun vs semi-auto, is all moot. Nothing matters, as long as we're proficient with our chosen piece.

Hints for the debates in my previous sentence: caliber trumps capacity; M&P trounces Glock; wheel gun always wins against semi-auto.

Did I rile any feathers yet?

(BTW, my M&P9c has a 12 round flush fit magazine. Win for M&P vs Glock 26).
This debate reminds of what I already knew but forget often!! Gun style, ammo and capacity is to opinionated and passion fueled to have a civil conversation about!! My intent was good, but like always these topics turn into "a pissing contest" almost without fail!! The perfect gun, ammo, capacity is the one you are most confident with, hopefully backed by much practice and at least a little proven research.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:29 PM   #146
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I don't put myself in situations where I feel a need to be armed like a cop. It's your right to do so and I have no trouble with that. But I don't see a need personally. I draw that on my experience as well as many others that I studied over the years. I've lived a half a century in this planet and didn't do so assuming. I have always since I've carried a pistol trained as often as possible making things as difficult as possible. I'll make every round count. I don't want them flying around past my target.

So no..I don't assume anything. I just deal in facts.
Okay now I will address some assumptions that I was going to ignore earlier because I was trying to keep it civil.

1) I arm myself like a cop because I am one.

2) There are some simple facts that you choose to ignore. You don't have to put yourself in the situation to deal with someone mentally disabled hopped up on drugs. They exist everywhere in society.

I fought one a couple of nights ago. It took 5 of us to take him down. He attacked an elderly gentleman for absolutely no reason at all and he did it in front of us and didn't care who was there or what happened to him after that. He felt nothing that we did and fought us until he blacked out. It's way more common than you choose to believe.

3) I have worked with people who thought like you. And I have watched as they almost died on the side of the road because they faced the situation they told me was "not likely" literally half an hour before it happened.

If you can prepare for the worst, do it. Period. If living on this earth for 50 years hasn't taught you that, then you need to start paying more attention to the world around you. If you choose not to then that's your personal choice, but don't talk condescendingly to someone else because they have chosen to examine facts and possibilities that you haven't.

Sometimes you need more ammo. So if you can comfortably carry it, carry it. If you can't, fine but don't act like that makes you a better shooter than someone who can.
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

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Old 08-26-2013, 11:49 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by DeltaF

Okay now I will address some assumptions that I was going to ignore earlier because I was trying to keep it civil.

1) I arm myself like a cop because I am one.

2) There are some simple facts that you choose to ignore. You don't have to put yourself in the situation to deal with someone mentally disabled hopped up on drugs. They exist everywhere in society.

I fought one a couple of nights ago. It took 5 of us to take him down. He attacked an elderly gentleman for absolutely no reason at all and he did it in front of us and didn't care who was there or what happened to him after that. He felt nothing that we did and fought us until he blacked out. It's way more common than you choose to believe.

3) I have worked with people who thought like you. And I have watched as they almost died on the side of the road because they faced the situation they told me was "not likely" literally half an hour before it happened.

If you can prepare for the worst, do it. Period. If living on this earth for 50 years hasn't taught you that, then you need to start paying more attention to the world around you. If you choose not to then that's your personal choice, but don't talk condescendingly to someone else because they have chosen to examine facts and possibilities that you haven't.

Sometimes you need more ammo. So if you can comfortably carry it, carry it. If you can't, fine but don't act like that makes you a better shooter than someone who can.
Nice read sir!! And thanks for your service to the community!! You guys are under appreciated and grossly under paid in my opinion! Thanks again!!
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:53 PM   #148
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1) I arm myself like a cop because I am one.


I'm glad you're a cop and I hope you are a good one. Frankly I've seen too many stupid people wearing a badge. Just because you are a cop doesn't automatically make you right. Again not trying say you aren't a good cop. But this is the internet and you could be anybody. If you want to arm yourself like a cop that's your business. Many of us older guys remember when cops were armed with brains. When cops didn't bean bag 95 year old veterans. What I'm trying to say is this, asking us to take your word for something just because you are a cop doesn't really cut it anymore. Again I mean no offense to you.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:05 AM   #149
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I'm glad you're a cop and I hope you are a good one. Frankly I've seen too many stupid people wearing a badge. Just because you are a cop doesn't automatically make you right. Again not trying say you aren't a good cop. But this is the internet and you could be anybody. If you want to arm yourself like a cop that's your business. Many of us older guys remember when cops were armed with brains. When cops didn't bean bag 95 year old veterans. What I'm trying to say is this, asking us to take your word for something just because you are a cop doesn't really cut it anymore. Again I mean no offense to you.
I wasn't making that point for the reason you listed. I made that point because he mentioned twice that i was basically "arming myself like a cop" when I didn't need to.

I've worked with great cops, most of the guys I worked with were great. Especially the old school guys I was "raised" by.

And I've worked with some that would bean bag a 95 year old and haven't liked working around them. And I've worked with some old school guys who thought they knew all and had seen it all and haven't liked working around them either. I've seen some dumb stuff and have no grand illusions about cops always being right.

Edit: let me say though that by FAR the overwhelming majority of men and women I work with are very skilled and very knowledgeable and very good at their jobs. And are made INVISIBLE by the attention focused on the very rare d-bag with a badge. Public opinion of our profession is shaped by the 1% of d-bags and not the 99% of professionals who do their job with excellence and that is a crying shame.
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

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Old 08-27-2013, 12:29 AM   #150
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Okay now I will address some assumptions that I was going to ignore earlier because I was trying to keep it civil.

1) I arm myself like a cop because I am one.
So fine..You're a cop, what did that have to do with ANY of my posts. I was talking about civilian SD situations

2) There are some simple facts that you choose to ignore. You don't have to put yourself in the situation to deal with someone mentally disabled hopped up on drugs. They exist everywhere in society.

I fought one a couple of nights ago. It took 5 of us to take him down. He attacked an elderly gentleman for absolutely no reason at all and he did it in front of us and didn't care who was there or what happened to him after that. He felt nothing that we did and fought us until he blacked out. It's way more common than you choose to believe.

You took five guys to take in one whacked out guy, I would assume that's because you wanted him alive. Something I'll think nothing about if I have to draw a weapon again. There's one sure way to eliminate a threat. And that's to make sure the bad person is not going to move anymore. I don't have to get them into trial Sure, I might end up on trial, But if I'm drawing a weapon then I'm reasonably sure that my life is in danger. And that's all I need in my state.



3) I have worked with people who thought like you. And I have watched as they almost died on the side of the road because they faced the situation they told me was "not likely" literally half an hour before it happened.

Situational awareness is your friend.

If you can prepare for the worst, do it. Period. If living on this earth for 50 years hasn't taught you that, then you need to start paying more attention to the world around you. If you choose not to then that's your personal choice, but don't talk condescendingly to someone else because they have chosen to examine facts and possibilities that you haven't.

If we're to prep for the worst I guess I need to save up for something much bigger than a pistol. Because a roving band of armed methed out bikers might find me at the KFC and want to Ned Beatty my virgin arse. An asteroid can land on my house right now but I'm not running out to get an asteroid trampoline to go over top the place. My point is a pistol is a compromise. You are not prepping for the worst with a pistol. You are playing the odds that it will be enough. You're fooling yourself to think otherwise.

Sometimes you need more ammo. So if you can comfortably carry it, carry it. If you can't, fine but don't act like that makes you a better shooter than someone who can.
No, I'm an above average shooter because I work at it very hard. I spend more time and ammo in a week than most people will in months. 150 rounds just today. and I'll be out there at least two-three times more this week at the least. I put my busted up old mans body through things to get my aim off and breathing heavy. I use smaller targets at greater distances as the mistakes are magnified over distance. Off an inch at 21 feet you're completely off target at 25 yards. Those small do-all targets that move every time you hit them are great tools for that. But I use several different types of target. So no, I don't think I'm a better shooter because I carry less ammo when out in the world. I think I'm an above average shooter because I work my ass off at it. But not once did I say I was better than anyone. I only test myself against myself. And to me any round that misses a target is a round that could get me other people hurt or worse. And I don't want that on my conscience. I take carrying a gun very serious. And for me to do so confidently I do my best to make sure every round counts every time.

Now understand I"m not saying all this because I think I'm uber cool or something. I'm just one of those peopel that has to practice a lot to be any good at anything. If I had that kind of ego I'd of been a different type of musician than a drummer. No one pays much attention to us.
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