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Old 08-26-2013, 06:11 PM   #21
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I don't consider soft shooting to be a qualifier for ammo that I am going to bet my life on. All of the overnight self proclaimed gun experts fail to tell you that for the 9mm to be as good as anything else that it is carried in 124 to 127 grain in +P or + P+. If you are interested in soft shooting why not a 22? Any of the LE ammo is what I carry for self defense. Buffalo Bore and Underwood make some fine loads. After extensive reading and research I won't carry Critical anything for SD.

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Old 08-26-2013, 06:41 PM   #22
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BTW - Thanks for the correction. Speer Gold Dots. I think I had them confused with Golden Sabers. Obviously not what I used.

I looked at the information for RBCD and followed the link posted. 90gr .45 ACP rounds? Wow, talk about buying into the high velocity school of thought. I think at some point you're going too light and what you gain in speed you lose from mass. Remember that energy is about mass AND velocity.

What people really need to remember is that handguns suck. They are not ideal weapons but often the one you have. Like I said originally, you really are only going to see marginal improvement. There is only so much you can do with a 9mm bullet. Same with .45 ACP. I'd trust my life to either one of them but if I KNEW I was going into combat neither one are my first choice either.

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Old 08-26-2013, 08:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by zeke4351
After extensive reading and research I won't carry Critical anything for SD.
Just curious, what'd you come across that makes you distrust Critical Duty or Defense?
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:11 PM   #24
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I don't shoot hollow points in any of my 9mm. I don't feel that the 9mm has enough penetration to make the most of a hollow point. Yes, I have read all the gun magazines and their expert opinion. I have seen a man shoot a deer with a 9mm right in the shoulder that I had to chase down and finish off with a rifle. If a 9mm hollow point won't put a 140 lb doe down I am not betting my life on it. Men get much larger than 140 lb.

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Old 08-26-2013, 08:28 PM   #25
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I don't shoot hollow points in any of my 9mm. I don't feel that the 9mm has enough penetration to make the most of a hollow point.
Most complain about 9mm over penetration you think it doesn't have enough. How do you a different calibre would have stopped the deer.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:44 PM   #26
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Most complain about 9mm over penetration you think it doesn't have enough. How do you a different calibre would have stopped the deer. I think the thing to learn from that experience is use a rifle to shoot deer a legal requirement in a lot of countries.
I know a 22 wmr JSP fired from a rifle would have put the doe running on her chin. It would have went through the deer and put her down. The 9mm HP failed to do that at less than 20 yards. Imagine what would happen if you shoot a 230 lb weightlifter cranked up on bath salts? You don't always get a second shot.

If nothing else the FMJ will create an exit wound that will cause the attacker to bleed to death before he breaks every bone in my body. What if you have some idiot trying to run you down with a car? Once again the FMJ is the tool for the job.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:00 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke4351
I don't consider soft shooting to be a qualifier for ammo that I am going to bet my life on. All of the overnight self proclaimed gun experts fail to tell you that for the 9mm to be as good as anything else that it is carried in 124 to 127 grain in +P or + P+. If you are interested in soft shooting why not a 22? Any of the LE ammo is what I carry for self defense. Buffalo Bore and Underwood make some fine loads. After extensive reading and research I won't carry Critical anything for SD.
Please do share your findings of why horniday isn't a good sd round

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Most complain about 9mm over penetration you think it doesn't have enough. How do you a different calibre would have stopped the deer. I think the thing to learn from that experience is use a rifle to shoot deer a legal requirement in a lot of countries.
Illegal to hunt deer with rifle n Indiana. Only pistol caliber long guns
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:11 PM   #28
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If nothing else the FMJ will create an exit wound that will cause the attacker to bleed to death before he breaks every bone in my body. What if you have some idiot trying to run you down with a car? Once again the FMJ is the tool for the job.
I would agree a good hit with a FMJ will do the job. The most important thing for any bullet is penetration.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:19 PM   #29
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I would agree a good hit with a FMJ will do the job. The most important thing for any bullet is penetration.
But you have to find the balance between penetration and over penetration. Which is what hollow points are designed to help with.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:32 PM   #30
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But you have to find the balance between penetration and over penetration. Which is what hollow points are designed to help with
That's where it gets difficult to many variables heavy clothing distance etc. The perfect bullet would go through the body and stop just under the skin at the other side no one has invented a round that can do that.

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Illegal to hunt deer with rifle n Indiana.
What is the thinking behind that. Here for example to have the most chance of a clean kill is the reason for the law regarding minimum calibre and muzzell for deer.

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For all deer of any species - a minimum calibre of .240 and minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds is the legal requirement.
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