Benefit of 1911s? - Page 2
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > Semi-Auto Handguns > Benefit of 1911s?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2011, 10:30 PM   #11
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
pioneer461's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 938
Liked 27 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

A lot of the fuss has to do with history. The 1911 is a combat proven workhorse that has a powerful cartridge with a proven track record. Another aspect is the grip angle, which makes the 1911 a natural "pointer" and easy to line up the sights. Finally the trigger allows the pistol to be very accurate. There are lots of myths and old wife's tales associated with "old Slab Sides," most of which are false. Find someone who has a 1911 and ask if you can shoot it. Then you will know.

As for what police officers carry, that varies from department-to-department. There is no "standard" police pistol. Many officers do carry the Glock, but officers don't always have a choice. Some departments require certain pistols, some others are more open minded and let officers decide, within certain standards. I was able to choose my own sidearm for most of my career. I began with a S&W model 19 .357 mag, then transitioned to a S&W mod. 59 9mm in the mid 80's and finally to a S&W mod. 4006, .40 S&W caliber in the early 90's. Just before I retired from active service, my department issued Sig Saur 226 & 229's. During most of that time I had a 1911 as an off-duty gun.

I still own a 1911, and at times carry it, but my every day, go-to, carry gun is either a S&W 457, .45 acp, in wintertime, or Springfield XD sub compact, .40 S&W during warmer weather.

When some department issue firearms to officers, it isn't always about what is best for the streets, but what is most cost effective.

__________________
Sui Juris
Cogito, ergo armatum sum
NRA Life Member / SAF Member
Retired Police Detective '71-'01 / LEOSA Certified
Naval Aviation Veteran '65-'69

United States Constitution (c) 1791
All Rights Reserved
pioneer461 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2011, 11:36 PM   #12
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rochester WI,Rochester WI
Posts: 18,337
Liked 6184 Times on 3256 Posts
Likes Given: 447

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcfroggin View Post
I've never owned a 1911, so I'm wondering - what is the fuss about?

Quote:
I would think that a Glock is less likely to rust. Rumor has it that 1911's don't feed hollow points as well, but any truth to that? 1911's are larger weopons that are more difficult to conceal - at least it appears that way by the eye test.
not true. glocks have steel parts just like 1911s. the frame is plastic but the slide of a glock is steel. no advantage.

my colt series 70 will feed empty cases hollow points wadcutters fmj. i dont think a glock can feed empty fired cases.

glocks are wider than 1911's making glocks harder to conceal. its the slide/frame width that determines how easy pistols are to conceal.

Quote:
I understand that you can customize a 1911 much easier than something like a Glock, but how important is it to have a different color handle or something?
personal preference i like either hogue rubber grips or a nice checkered wood grip. i dont like the hard plastic glock grip which can lead to losing control of the gun if your hands are sweaty.

Quote:
I know it sounds like I'm trying to flame 1911's here, but no one in my family has a 1911. Is there a benefit or is it because of the long heritage that people like 1911s? Maybe it just feels better?
most people like the quick follow up low muzzle flip you get from an all steel 1911. the 1911 has a better grip angle than glock making the 1911 a natural pointer. more people are able to handle the thinner grip than the fat chunky glock grip.

Quote:
There are military grade 1911s, but the police carry Glocks yes?
police carry glocks because they are cheap. thats about it. a civilian police department is the very last place i would look for a recommendation on firearm choices. they are usually 2-3 decades behind and often make choices based off political pressure than what is good for the individual officer.

Quote:
Also seems like 1911's are often more expensive. How do you justify the cost increase? I must be missing something.
quality costs money hence the cheap price of glocks...
__________________

"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." — L. Neil Smith

The problem with being stupid is you cannot simply decide to stop doing dumb things...

"I crapped my pants to avoid the draft!!" -Ted Nugent

JonM is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 12:11 AM   #13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
HOSSFLY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lufkin,Tx
Posts: 6,932
Liked 2182 Times on 1472 Posts
Likes Given: 1191

Default

I think thats one of those "IF YOU HAVE TO ASK" questions

No one can really give you a answer------TRY ONE

__________________

Texan By Birth & Choice
USMC/VIET NAM VET

HOSSFLY is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 12:58 AM   #14
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I see you, and you will not know when I will strike
Posts: 24,301
Liked 3479 Times on 1609 Posts
Likes Given: 3590

Default

Now guys. Easy. Down in the front row, we don't need to scare the new man outright.

Okay.

The Glock. It's about 30-35 years old. It's on it's 4th generation design. It's plastic and it was designed by a guy who used to design bathroom fixtures. The handle is ergonomically "difficult" and puts the barrel at a "unique" relation to where the hand grips the pistol.

That said, the thing will go bang every time that you pull the trigger. It can be taken in mud and saltwater and all sorts of stupid sh*t that you would never do with a pistol and it will still fire. It's a perfect pistol for "the masses".

If you want to shoot more than you clean, more than you maintain, the Glock is for you.

The 1911.

For over 100 years, it was designed and first produced in the early 1890's, the 1911 stamp is when the military officially adopted it, the pistol has been the Gold Standard in .45 ACP performance and pistols in general.

Young men rarely appreciate the 1911 platform. I know I didn't. It's a single stack. It's an old man's gun. It needs a lot of custom features to work. I can buy (6) Glocks for a 'good' 1911. It's just plain, "old".

Some of those statements are true. I would never claim otherwise. But a lot of them are bias.

A properly tuned 1911, regardless of name, is a Ferrari. The Glock is a Mustang.

They can do the same thing, they can travel on the same roads, they can drive you to the same spots. The difference is that the Ferrari is unique, it's special and it handles like it was designed with YOU in mind.

The Glock? Well, not so much, but it will still get the job done.

Me? I have shot every Glock they have put on the market up thru Gen 3. I don't care for them. But that is me. If you shoot one, you might LOVE them.

The key is for you to go and shoot a plethora of guns and see what feels the best TO YOU.

We can't tell you what is going to get the job done for you, or what is going to feel right, or what is going to be the RIGHT gun for you.

Having tried to be fair and balanced up to this point, my final thought is:

JD (Still in Houston)
3-thulsa-doom-original.jpg  
__________________
Dillinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 02:48 AM   #15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CHLChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Portland,Oregon
Posts: 2,523
Liked 190 Times on 129 Posts
Likes Given: 89

Default

I, too, started with a Glock 19 and wondered what the deal was with the 1911. There are some VERY aggressive 1911ers around here, but even through their raw spear pointed arguments, I saw some time-proven truths. There are even more mild mannered and extremely helpful 1911 believers whose experiences convinced me.

I came to the 1911 by realizing that the .45acp round fit my needs better than 9mm. Then, I realized I wanted steel in my hand.

I am not a tinkerer, though. I didn't, personally, buy 4 1911's because I wanted to bling them out with special parts. I bought them because the moment I did, followed by the moment I fired it, followed by the moment I stripped and cleaned it, I was hooked by JMB's design.

Financially I had to sell the G19 to buy my first 1911, but there is a place for both in your collection. No need to choose one or the other.

Buy both!

__________________
.45acp, .40 S&W, 9mm, .38 Spl, .380 acp, 22lr
12 gauge, .223/5.56x45mm, 30-30 Winchester


2 Chron. 7:14 Christians must seek His face
CHLChris is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 03:13 AM   #16
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
General_lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lumpkin,Georgia
Posts: 1,268
Liked 17 Times on 9 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHLChris View Post
I, too, started with a Glock 19 and wondered what the deal was with the 1911. There are some VERY aggressive 1911ers around here, but even through their raw spear pointed arguments, I saw some time-proven truths. There are even more mild mannered and extremely helpful 1911 believers whose experiences convinced me.

I came to the 1911 by realizing that the .45acp round fit my needs better than 9mm. Then, I realized I wanted steel in my hand.

I am not a tinkerer, though. I didn't, personally, buy 4 1911's because I wanted to bling them out with special parts. I bought them because the moment I did, followed by the moment I fired it, followed by the moment I stripped and cleaned it, I was hooked by JMB's design.

Financially I had to sell the G19 to buy my first 1911, but there is a place for both in your collection. No need to choose one or the other.

Buy both!
Ya know, it seems that most people that like 1911's don't like Glock (mostly because of the grip angle). I guess I'm weird but I like them both and I shoot them both equally well. If I could only have two pistols, I would have to choose my Springfield 1911 and my G19.
__________________
General_lee is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 03:40 AM   #17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: corpus christi,texas
Posts: 100
Default

for me they're more accurate and more fun to shoot at the range but I still prefer a fool proof high capacity plastic gun to protect myself.

__________________
shooter57 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 04:09 AM   #18
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 635
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default Reasons why 1911a1?

Why 1911a1,

That is a complex responce, mine stems from decades of carry! I've always carried a 5" or 4" 1911a1 or BHP, I do like the Grip angle and SA carry Loced and Cocked has Never Bothered me! I did try a Glock I carred a 17 and 19 and the Full to empty weight and Ballance shift bothered me! Plus on 1911a1 I need no real special tools to work on them! Glock and Sig Both needed them? I keep a simple set of replacment parts for Both 1911a1 and BHP and can and do replace them as I need! Parts for Glock now easier to find, and get but some are still Glock armoror only,and I'mnot 1? LOL

RON

__________________
RONSERESURPLUS is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2011, 04:12 AM   #19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
M14sRock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,540
Liked 33 Times on 23 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

Why one over the other? It will come down to personal taste, and only you can decide.

I own more 1911s than Glocks, but prefer Glocks for all serious use. They work every time. Glocks are essentially impervious to environmental issues.

JD mentioned that Glocks are on their 4th version, which should be viewed as a good thing. But I still prefer the Gen1 Glock 17 to all those that have followed. The basic design of the Glock has not changed, however.

And 1911s have also gone through many upgrades and changes. From 1911 to 1911A1, to Series 70, to Series 80, etc.

Check out the list of changes made to the S&W Model 10 some time if you want to see a design that has evolved. Amazing.

Gun designs evolve.

Many people are under the misconception that all Police officers are gun experts and shooters. Not true. Very few police officers are "gun people" anymore. So the issue of firearms training comes into play. Glocks have a very simple manual of arms that is easy to teach and easy to learn. They are consistent, and simple. And very early on Glocks were far easier to transition officers to, from DA revolvers. That was attractive to Police Departments and helped give the Glock a leg up on the competition. Many excellent pistol designs have come along since the Glocks took over the LEO market, but they are all playing "catch up". Glock set the stage.

The money that is saved by making the Glock frame out of polymer gets reinvested on the cost of the steel components (and their manufacturing) of the Glock. Bar stock slides, hammer forged barrels, and Tenifer inside and out. Glock used Tenifer for years before anyone else came close (Melonite, M80HT, etc). I have considered having one of my 1911s M80HT'd, just because.

I was passionate about 1911s while growing up and had an aptitude for guns in general, so the manual of arms for a 1911 was no problem. But I have friends who ARE gun guys that get frustrated in disassembling and reassembling 1911s and they can strip a Glock with no problem.

As a lifelong 1911 user, it took me a couple of years to get comfortable with a Glock when they first came out. New shooters don't have that problem (no muscle memory to re-learn), and I find that about 9 out of 10 of them prefer the grip angle of the Glock over the 1911. In my classes, everyone gets the chance to try all of my guns. Most stay with the Glock of their own choice.

The Glock was not the first pistol to use that grip angle, by the way. It was used by Georg Luger in his legendary P08 (Luger), the Type 14 Nambus, Bill Ruger chose it for the the Standard Model .22 (Mk1, Mk2, etc), High Standard used it for many of their most popular .22s, the Benelli B76 had it, and others as well. Those guns were all praised for their inherent "pointability". When the 1911 was upgraded to the 1911A1 one of the upgrades included an arched mainspring housing. That was done to enhance the pointing characteristics of the pistol.

You can take 35 Glock pistols of the same model number, detail strip them, dump all the parts into one big box and mix them up. You can then reassemble 35 Glocks from random parts and all 35 will work perfectly.

You cannot do that with 50+ 1911s (1911s have more parts than a Glock).

You can take a .40SW Glock and drop a 9mm top end onto it and it will work 100%. You can put a Lone Wolf 9mm barrel in a Glock .40, swap the mags and the gun will run perfectly. You can do the same with a .357Sig barrel in a Glock .40. That can give someone the ability to have one gun on a budget, but fire multiple calibers from it for a nominal expense. Very versatile.

Both pistols cycle fast, and have short trigger reset. Both are accurate. Both are durable.

At the end of the day, they are both excellent choices for many reasons. I love the "artform" of the 1911, but the durable, yet refined utility of the Glock.

I keep a Glock 17 on my nightstand for serious use. There are no mysteries to the Glock. They are boringly dependable. But when I'm sitting on the couch "playing" with a gun it is almost always a 1911. The 1911 is sly, and sexy. A 1911 is impossible to walk past without picking up (for me), while I can walk past a Glock because odds are that it will be like all the rest of them.

Aside from chipped extractors, I've never even broken a part on a Glock. I've broken too many 1911 parts to mention.

I own lots of 1911s, and lots of Glocks and love them all.

__________________
NRA-Life
CRPA-Life

SAF-Life
PEIAPOI


"Obama has ordered the launching of more Tomahawk cruise missiles than All the other Nobel Peace Prize winners combined."
M14sRock is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2011, 09:18 AM   #20
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Mesa,Arizona
Posts: 44
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

I'm from the old school, so I'm not a fan of plastic guns. There are no aesthetics (I would say butt ugly, but I wouldn't want to offend) to much of the blocky pistols out there and the micro guns don't fit in your hand and are tough to shoot. My aresenal functions well, gives me good accuracy and they look good to me. So here we are. If you like your choices in firepower, great. To each his own and happy shooting.

__________________
Poof38 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
SW Pa. Wounded Warrior benefit side match Gatekeeper Competition Shooting 3 04-14-2011 05:31 PM
Crackdown on benefit fraud Davyboy Politics, Religion and Controversy 0 07-24-2010 09:36 PM
The benefit of open borders with Mexico mr1911 Politics, Religion and Controversy 5 08-23-2009 08:25 PM
My 1911s NGIB 1911 Forum 13 08-10-2009 02:20 PM