9x19mm CIP,SAAMI,NATO?
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:48 PM   #1
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Default 9x19mm CIP,SAAMI,NATO?

So I've just become aware of something.
In America,we use SAAMI specifications to load our domestic ammo,and in Europe,they use CIP and the military uses NATO.

Comparing the different specs for 9 para has lead me to believe that we under-load ammo quite a bit.

Any input?

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Old 06-02-2010, 01:16 AM   #2
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Yes, we do. Concept being that there are very old guns out there, and any cartridge loaded to SAAMI specs should be safe to shoot in a gun marked with that caliber. Load tables written by lawyers.

Having said that, there is 9mm Para ammo made for submachineguns you would be NUTS to shoot in a Luger pistol. I handload .357 rounds that, from a 2 inch Model 60, would sprain something, and probably split your lip. But from a VERY heavy revolver, they just make shooters 4 points down the firing line hide under the benchrest, and whimper.

PS- I have ONE round of .45 ACP Remington-Thompson- made for use in the SMG in the mid 30s. Would never want to see that fired in a handgun. From the SMG was rated at 1050 ft lbs.

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Old 06-02-2010, 01:46 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
PS- I have ONE round of .45 ACP Remington-Thompson- made for use in the SMG in the mid 30s. Would never want to see that fired in a handgun. From the SMG was rated at 1050 ft lbs.
YOWZA!!!!

I've noticed that for the price,you can get a much better deal on 9 para ammo if you buy it from European manufacturers,for example-the Remington Golden Sabre 124grain +p doing 1180fps is like 15 bucks for a box of 25 rounds,for a couple bucks more you can get a box of 50 rounds Fiocchi loaded with Hornady XTPs that go 1290fps(no +p)-

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM414-5.html

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=123193

I like the truncated cone design from fiocchi,and it is even less $-

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=119253

but then I come across this-

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM4310-1.html

whats up with NATO specs?is it sort of like the CIP,or a different spec altogether?
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:50 PM   #4
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NATO spec is, per my very limited understanding, a common loading for ammo intended for use by NATO forces, to provide commonality of ammo- so that the Canadian can use a Brtish 9mm pistol, and safely load Amercian ammo- and the gunner on the 7.62 NATO MG does not have to worry about a suddenly different trajectory when he pops open a case of ammo made by someone else. What we called a STANAG- Stand NATO Agreement- may or may not coincide with SAAMI or CIP.

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Old 06-02-2010, 07:36 PM   #5
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Is NATO spec 9mm para closer to CIP or SAAMI,do you know?

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Old 06-02-2010, 11:39 PM   #6
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Josh- have not a clue. Seems relatively weak to me, would think NATO is closer to SAAMI, but no real expertise. Regrets-

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Old 06-02-2010, 11:43 PM   #7
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Hmmm....I'll have to stick with European 9mm ammo if thats the case.Thanks for all your input c3shooter.

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