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-   -   Is .45 GAP a horrible round? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f15/45-gap-horrible-round-11816/)

Bighead 03-13-2009 09:10 AM

Is .45 GAP a horrible round?
 
I brought up the "other" .45 in another thread and got this response:

Quote:

.45 Glock is a horrible round. I carry 9x19 before I'd carry .45 Glock. .45 Glock should have been left for dead before it was marketed. The creators knew it wasn't going to do what they planned.
I didn't want to hijack the thread, which was about small carry 1911's, but was curious about this round. Let me first say that I don't own a .45 GAP, and have no experience with them.

Is the .45 GAP really a "horrible" round, or is it suffering from the same fate as the .41 Magnum? While GAP may be a "solution to a problem that exists only in the mind of the seller", namely the brick-thick grip of the Glock 21, it does seem to put of decent numbers.

Maybe Glock should have thought a little less outside the box, and simply designed a slimmer grip that would accomodate the .45 ACP (think Springfield XD, Smith M&P), but they didn't and this round is out there. Anyway, I'm curious to crack open the hood on the .45 GAP and see why people do or don't like it, and how it stacks up against other self defense loadings.

Quote:

Here are the five loads that compare between the cartridges:

CCI Lawman 185 grain TMJ
GAP/1037 fps, ACP/1018 fps

Speer Gold Dot 185 grain JHP
GAP/1070 fps, ACP 1003 fps

CCI Lawman 200 grain TMJ
GAP 982 fps, ACP 930 fps

Winchester USA 230 grain FMJ
GAP/809 fps, ACP 807 fps

Winchester Ranger SXT 230 grain JHP
GAP/878 fps, ACP 839 fps

Average GAP 955.2 fps
Average ACP 919.4 fps

From Firearms - .45GAP vs .45ACP by Mark Freburg

Mark F 03-13-2009 11:02 AM

There is nothing wrong with 45 GAP, except the availibility of ammo. 45ACP ammo is everywhere.

Dillinger 03-13-2009 01:38 PM

The .45 GAP is a solution to a problem that didn't really exist.

Basically, if you take a .45 ACP round, and using your Sesame Street Chainsaw, cut it down the center, you will see there is space between the bottom of the bullet and the powder.

All the folks at Glock did was eliminate the space and "invent" a smaller version of the same round - calling it the .45 GAP ( Glock Automatic Pistol )

It was the talk of the town for about 7 or 8 minutes. Here was a smaller version of the .45 ACP that could be single or double stacked and carried in a smaller framed pistol - so it was ideal for CCW and smaller handed shooters.

It never caught on, just like the .41 Magnum as you indicated, because there really isn't a market for it. There are plenty of small pistols that chamber the .45 ACP as it stands. Who is going out of there way to stock up on a new pistol AND a ton of new ammo, just for the novelty? Wait a minute - Cane and I are doing exactly that with the .460 Rowland - but that wasn't my point.. :rolleyes:

Price, and availability, of the .45 GAP just make it something that never really took off, and probably will go the way of the DoDo before too long because there isn't a market for it - unless you are a Glock Collector...

JD

c3shooter 03-13-2009 02:01 PM

Figure the .45 GAP will be bought by the same folks that bought the .307 rifles- or maybe the Remington 5mm rimfire. Or the grandsons of the folks that bought the S&W .35 auto.

Ask any cartridge collector if they can name 5 rounds that simply faded into obscurity because other things existed that did the same thing cheaper, better, etc. They can probably rattle off a dozen.

Say, anybody know where I can get a few boxes of .22 VL caseless, some Dardick Trounds in .22, or some ammo for my Gyrojet pistol? Walmart has been out of stock for some time now......:rolleyes:

8000F 03-13-2009 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bighead (Post 81816)
I brought up the "other" .45........... Anyway, I'm curious to crack open the hood on the .45 GAP and see why people do or don't like it, and how it stacks up against other self defense loadings.

Let me try to explain why it WAS a good idea and why it IS NOT ONE..

Gaston Glock is a genius..He beat S&W to the market with the 40 S&W that Smith had invented and then stole away over 60% of the LE market with his guns...Like them or not, that's a fact. Now, years down the road, what does he do to repeat that trick. How bout a 45 caliber in a true 9mm size gun. Wow, then he could tell the LEO's "here is a gun you can use in your same gear, (ie, HOLSTER & MAG POUCH) and have the legendary stopping power of the 45..Quick, trade in all your used 40's and we will outfit you with the 45 GAP...That was the plan and ofcourse, as goes the LE market, so goes the rest of us lemmings...

THEN, the problem came up that ruined the plan...It would not function with the smaller slide, after making several thousand, and had to change the slide to the former fat one of the 21 model...Now, we can't use the same gear (ie, HOLSTER) and so nowhere near as many will be inclined to swap guns because they will need new gear and that was the beginning of the great plan that died...A few have switched, but, Glock made it such a sweet deal, who could resist. Ga. State Patrol got the gun, extra mags, night sights, holsters and a backup gun as well for the exchange of their old ones...Less recoil than the 40, but 5 less rounds as well. Hi cap for the GAP is 10 rounds...Back up gun lost 3 rounds as well...and gained no more ft/lbs of energy!

Time will judge this caliber, but, for me, it will have to last for another 75 years and then check with me for my thought on trading my 9mm's for it.

If Mr Glock's plan had worked, he would have been a genius 2 different times. As for now, he is just a 1 time genius....SO FAR! FWIW, I do not own a single Glock, nor any other plastic gun and am planning on converting to all Cougars..

matt g 03-13-2009 08:08 PM

.45 GAP was designed to reduce the felt recoil of .45 ACP, but deliver the same accuracy and knockdown power. The did it by using a small pistol primer, in place of the large pistol primer used in .45 ACP. They also used a slower burning powder and decreased the amount of space between the bullet and powder. This was all supposed to slow combustion down just enough for the powder to take all 4" of the barrel to burn.

Because of the design changes, accuracy was decreased seriously. Generally, .45 GAP also use a lighter bullet which kills terminal performance.

John Browning designed the .45 ACP from the ground up as a man stopper. Few other automatic rounds will be able to do the job as well as the original.

8000F 03-13-2009 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt g (Post 81997)
.45 GAP was designed to reduce the felt recoil of .45 ACP, but deliver the same accuracy and knockdown power. The did it by using a small pistol primer, in place of the large pistol primer used in .45 ACP. They also used a slower burning powder and decreased the amount of space between the bullet and powder. This was all supposed to slow combustion down just enough for the powder to take all 4" of the barrel to burn.

Because of the design changes, accuracy was decreased seriously. Generally, .45 GAP also use a lighter bullet which kills terminal performance.

John Browning designed the .45 ACP from the ground up as a man stopper. Few other automatic rounds will be able to do the job as well as the original.

The standard weights for the 45 ACP is 185, 200, & 230...The SAME as the 45 GAP...185, 200, & 230. The rounds are the same in terms of vel & energy generally speaking...The purpose was same performance as ACP in a 9/40 size platform....

The Browning designed MANSTOPPER you speak of was a 230 gr Ball round & and nobody really believes that a 45 ball round is equal to even a 9mm Hollow Point with todays technology..And a 9mm +P+, has less recoil and is as much a one shot stopper as any 40 or standard 45 ACP round...And I did not reply here to argue 45 vs 9...My point was and is the GAP was brought to market because of the intent to reduce the size of the 45 Glock to the size of the LE standard Glock 22 and if it has worked out, non of us would even be on this thread because it would not have been asked...

Bighead 03-14-2009 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt g (Post 81997)
Because of the design changes, accuracy was decreased seriously.

This is interesting, and would be curious to read more about the accuracy issue. It would certainly help explain the lack of popularity, although I think most of the issue has to do with the commitment and loyalty people have to a tried and true round like the .45 ACP.

8000F went out of his way to say he was not wanting to argue .45 vs 9mm because he understands the zealous support that will be given to the .45 ACP. That same support group is not likely to abandon John Moses Browning for Gaston Glock without significant, proven performance improvement. A little bit better, just as good, and not quite as good are not going to cut it.

Another thing 8000F said is true though, about law enforcement having to consider the cost of gear. The Oklahoma Highway Patrol decided to transition from .45 ACP to .357 SIG a few years ago, and were looking at going to the Glock pistol. When they couldn't secure funding for holsters, they instead went with Sig-Sauer P-226 pistols. They were able to swap their P-220 pistols with SigArms in order to keep the unit price down on the guns, and the new guns would fit in the old holsters.

Mark F 03-14-2009 10:39 AM

All this verbage reminds me of the 9mm Drago.

robocop10mm 03-14-2009 06:17 PM

9mm Federal. How many remember that fiasco? I still see no market for the GAP. Now the .41 Mag? I have 3. If you do not want yours, let's make a deal. I LOVE the .41. Just ask Smokinjoe.


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