1911vsGlockvsXDMvsM&P...etc - Page 24
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View Poll Results: 1911 or Glock
1911 44 69.84%
Glock 19 30.16%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-04-2013, 04:49 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by rifleman1 View Post
i have never been in a self defense situation myself,but i dont want to assume ill only need three rounds or six or ten i want as many as im legaly allowed to carry in the gun im carrying at the time.
that being said i carry a 5 shot 38spl regularly with a speed loader just in case,to assume you only need a set amount of rounds is kinda crazy to me.
i dont feel the 1911 is outdated i own three and carry one on my cc permit sometimes,but there are many other pistols available that are lighter more capacity and generally easier to conceal and with a ccw thats what one would want in my opinion.
my reasoning for carrying a glock is for the simplicity of use and the reliability of the pistol,and im not saying the 1911 is not reliable,but there is no denying the fact they are heavier and have more on them to snag on clothing while carrying concealed.
i love all my pistols including my 1911s or i would not own them, but if it came down to just the basics of concealed carry nothing else not capacity or what is outdated or whos is prettier,but what gun is more practical to hide in my waste band i would take my glock 19.just my opinion.
Speaking as someone that has been in that situation I feel safe sticking to the averages. AS I've said people can carry what they want but once you put your feet on premise beach you can get to some pretty strange places with what ifs. What if a squirrel lands on my face? I really don't have a reason for carrying what I do other than I shoot them well. and I don't always carry a 1911. I merely stated that this capacity argument only works if you are in an action movie, live in a REAL BAD neighborhood, or really should practice more. Or most important because you just really want to.
Using the high cap argument you can say I keep my 17 round pistol, I have two extra mags for that pistol and a BUG strapped on my leg. Because what if I am faced with 50 bad people and a couple more show up because they hear the noise? Really??? Now I really don't care if people want to carry a BUG. But, I don't see the reason to do so other than the person wants to. The logic is a little off. If I need that much ammo to go to the 7-11 to get my wife tampons I'd probably get a real estate mag to look for a new place to live. Because my neighborhood is really messed up!! The truth of the matter is if you are not in a place that ends with stan or you are not a cop you will live your life and not use one, two, or even three 17 round mags. On the unlikely event that you need to use your weapon you will not empty one mag. Statistics and my personal
experience tells me this.

It don't matter to me if someone wants to carry a belt fed Mini gun. Just don't try to say you need that kind of fire power because what if I am met with a band of angry Taliban on the way to work in the morning. You carry the mini gun because you want to. And it's your right. And that I will defend with what may be a low cap pistol till death. But I might get something a little bigger then.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:02 PM   #232
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So in other words, you claimed something you CAN'T prove.
Once again, you can't prove or disprove something that is not quantifiable.

You asked me to prove that the 1911 design is less efficient than the Glock design and I did EXACTLY that. You didn't counter any point I made with logic because you don't have any logic, math, or facts to argue with. Instead, you prefer to ask me to prove something that can't be proven one way or the other.

I guess by your logic I could not "prove" that a sword is outdated, but I saw the results of a "ninja" who attempted to fight the police with his sword. He got shot, but I guess that's not "proof" that a sword is outdated weapons technology because I'm sure you could come up with some scenario where a sword is more efficient or effective than a pistol.

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I like mine just like it is.
So do I. That's why I won't be buying a 1911 with extra parts.

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My 1911 can do the same thing.
So to be perfectly clear, you carry your 1911 with the chamber loaded, hammer back, and "safety" off, right? If not, then NO your 1911 does not work the same way a Glock does.

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The 1911 has worked for 100 plus years. I think is still pretty efficient.
The internal combustion engine has worked just fine for over 100 years, too, but electric motors are more efficient and have been for quite some time.

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Because you cant? You shouldn't have made that claim then.
I quantified the efficency of the design, now either quantify how the 1911 is more efficient than a Glock or stop arguing something you can't prove because I refused to engage in that argument with you.

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ZERO relevance to thread.
Efficiency is relevant to mechanical design. I can prove a carb V8 is less fuel efficient than a fuel-injected V8 just like I already proved that a Glock is more efficient than a 1911 in terms of weight, capacity, and mechanical efficiency.

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I read them all twice. It's you who should go re-read them.
Then perhaps you missed the part in two of those posts where the guns were still firing with aftermarket parts in them that were ugly or incorrectly installed. You may have read them twice, but apparently your comprehension is lacking.

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No, the guns aren't the issue here. It's the irresponsible gun owner who won't clean their guns.
Like the irresponsible owners who can't keep their fingers out of the trigger guard? Either you're lying about how you carry your 1911, you did not understand what I meant about the ability of your 1911 to fire by only pressing the trigger, or you don't have an argument to make. I stated that a Glock can fire by simply pulling the trigger and you stated that a 1911 could do the same thing. So, the ONLY way a 1911 can fire if you pull the trigger, assuming the gun is on good working condition, is if you depress the grip "safety" and disengage the thumb "safety". There is a 1911 that doesn't have all those unnecessary "features", it's called a Tokarev. If you carry your 1911 hammer back, thumb "safety" disengaged, with a round in the chamber then, yes, your 1911 will function just the same as a Glock will, assuming the grip "safety" has been depressed. Now, if you actually carry your 1911 like that, then why did you point out that the Glock "safety" is on the trigger? What difference does it make where the external "safety" lever is located? What does it matter if the "safety" is on the trigger or not?

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You have yet to prove anything other than you a GLOCK fan boy.
You seem to think that I have an issue with other pistol designs and would ONLY carry a Glock. Fact is, the S&W M&P is just as good as a Glock and has better ergonomics. I would carry either of the pistols without hesitation. A 1911 is old technology and, yes, you can make old technology work but that doesn't mean it's as mechanically efficient as modern technology. In fact, it was not modern technology in the 1930's after Browning replaced the swinging link design with a cam.

A 1911 has more parts period. A lot more. And it doesn't do anything a Glock doesn't do except fire lead ammo.

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What's wrong? Does a little lead have you scared? If A GLOCK is SOOOO much better than a 1911, then it should be able to handle all of the ammo a 1911 can handle.
Remove all the lubrication on your pistol and let's have a contest to see which pistol eats more ammo, lead or FMJ, before it chokes. I already know which pistol will choke first, so let's do it.

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Once again, something a RESPONSIBLE gun owner wouldn't do.
Like accidentally pulling the trigger?

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My 1911 will shoot either, but I prefer lead.
I prefer FMJ. So what?

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1) in one of the threads, a single part was messed up making the gun extremely unreliable.
Actually, the user stated that the gun still fired. Also, both threads where a "single part" made the gun unreliable were both cases of users installing aftermarket parts (not Glock parts) in the guns.

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2)1911s can do that. The thumb safety is not ALWAYS on you know.
So that stupid thumb "safety" that 1911 owners like to point out isn't doing anything for them at that point? Good to know.

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3) Step on a 1911 mag, and it will most likely work find. Mess up the lips on either mag, and they will both quit working. That doesn't really have anything to do with the gun itself though.
Try that out for yourself sometime.

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4) As said above, firing a gun without lube is not something a responsible gun owner should do.
What's the matter, scared of no lube?
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:06 PM   #233
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I'm not even going to bother reading that last post. It's more of the same. "My dad could beat up your dad" kinda arguments.


This thread wasn't intended to be an all out 1911 vs Glock war. I was simply interested in a poll, with numbers. The numbers on this poll are showing 1911 to be the clear winner. That's all I was curious about.

Now, please stop with the ridiculous arguments that aren't getting anyone anywhere. It's done. STOP.

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Old 08-04-2013, 08:08 PM   #234
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Im scared of no lube

Not cleaning your gun WILL lead to breakdowns in effencieny, i dont care if it's a GLOCK a Ruger or a Colt 1911, you don't clean it, it's gonna bite you later.
One gun is not superior to the other.
As much of this argument i have seen, id like to make a comparison.

S&W and Ruger revolvers.

Smith has been around longer, therefor they are more respected and proven on a wider variety of things. Ruger, is younger, but their guns have also been proven to be reliable and tough, often in different ways.
I think a Smith is prettier, but a Ruger will take more abuse and keep kickin. This particular 1911 vs GLOCK thread reminded me of that analogy.

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Old 08-04-2013, 08:20 PM   #235
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KB, nothing you have stated yet has proven the Glock to be more efficient than a 1911. at no point have you proven that the 1911 is outdated. so material defines whether it more efficient? does magazine capacity define one being more or less efficeint? the number of parts means more or less efficient?

the types of safeties a firearm has is pretty irrelevent if you have properly trained with that firearm. people have been carrying 1911's with their safety features for many years before Glock ever came on the scene. IMO, it comes down to what a person decides to carry and becomes proficient with that firearm and it's operation.

and i will state these simple facts. anything that has moving parts or that is manmade can fail. be it a 1911 or a Glock, or a Smith & Wesson, or insert any brand name here.

i have seen too many 1911's in the past that have gone well over 10K rounds with no failures. so stating a Glock can do the same thing with no failures, proves nothing to me.

an you keep bringing up running a Glock dry with no oil? well some of the torture tests of the old 1911's were dropping them in the mud and muck and shooting them. so again your point proves nothing again to me. if you want to abuse and not maintain your Glock and feel comfortable in doing so, then more power to you and i hope it never comes to haunt you at a most critical time. for me, i plan on keeping mine cleaned and maintained and inspected in case they might be needed then they will be.

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Old 08-04-2013, 08:33 PM   #236
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I'm not even going to bother reading that last post. It's more of the same. "My dad could beat up your dad" kinda arguments.


This thread wasn't intended to be an all out 1911 vs Glock war. I was simply interested in a poll, with numbers. The numbers on this poll are showing 1911 to be the clear winner. That's all I was curious about.

Now, please stop with the ridiculous arguments that aren't getting anyone anywhere. It's done. STOP.
Yeah, I'm done arguing with him. He made a claim that the 1911 was outdated, and has admitted that he can't prove it.

Sorry we even got into that pointless debate.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:45 PM   #237
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Im scared of no lube

Not cleaning your gun WILL lead to breakdowns in effencieny, i dont care if it's a GLOCK a Ruger or a Colt 1911, you don't clean it, it's gonna bite you later.
One gun is not superior to the other.
As much of this argument i have seen, id like to make a comparison.

S&W and Ruger revolvers.

Smith has been around longer, therefor they are more repected and proven on a wider variety of things. Ruger, is younger, but their guns have also been proven to be reliable and tough, often in different ways.
I think a Smith is prettier, but a Ruger will take more abuse and keep kickin. This particular 1911 vs GLOCK thread reminded me of that analogy.
Yeah, well, I lube my 1911 because I know from experience that they don't function very well without it. Should anyone ever not lubricate or clean their pistol, absolutely not. Will someone inevitably forget to do that, yes. Should a gun make it through a magazine without choking with no lube on it, yes.

Will a 1911 do that? Some might, but I've yet to see a $500 1911 that will. Doesn't mean it can't happen, I've just never seen or heard of it.

Some people are emotionally attached to objects of affection and are unable to see how some aspects of those endeared objects could be detrimental to them.

When someone invents a demonstrably better pistol than a Glock I will dump the Glock without a second thought. I think it can and will be done and I look forward to seeing the results of the progression of technology.

I have an affection for IBM Selectric typewriters, but I use a computer to type most letters and documents because the computer is a more efficient design from a usability standpoint. My MacBook Pro is obviously a lot more complicated, electrically, than the Selectric while mechanically simpler.

Will the MacBook Pro outlast a Selectric typewriter? My Selectric was made in the 1960's and was around when Steve Jobs was a child. It will be around long after my MacBook Pro dies but it's not more efficient for drafting documents and never will be, which is why businesses use computers instead of typewriters these days.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:49 PM   #238
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Yeah, well, I lube my 1911 because I know from experience that they don't function very well without it. Should anyone ever not lubricate or clean their pistol, absolutely not. Will someone inevitably forget to do that, yes. Should a gun make it through a magazine without choking with no lube on it, yes.

Will a 1911 do that? Some might, but I've yet to see a $500 1911 that will. Doesn't mean it can't happen, I've just never seen or heard of it.

Some people are emotionally attached to objects of affection and are unable to see how some aspects of those endeared objects could be detrimental to them.

When someone invents a demonstrably better pistol than a Glock I will dump the Glock without a second thought. I think it can and will be done and I look forward to seeing the results of the progression of technology.

I have an affection for IBM Selectric typewriters, but I use a computer to type most letters and documents because the computer is a more efficient design from a usability standpoint. My MacBook Pro is obviously a lot more complicated, electrically, than the Selectric while mechanically simpler.

Will the MacBook Pro outlast a Selectric typewriter? My Selectric was made in the 1960's and was around when Steve Jobs was a child. It will be around long after my MacBook Pro dies but it's not more efficient for drafting documents and never will be, which is why businesses use computers instead of typewriters these days.
The OP has specifically asked that this debate end. Are you going to defy his wishes?
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:12 PM   #239
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KB, nothing you have stated yet has proven the Glock to be more efficient than a 1911. at no point have you proven that the 1911 is outdated. so material defines whether it more efficient? does magazine capacity define one being more or less efficeint? the number of parts means more or less efficient?
Google complexity theory and applications to mechanical design. Google mechanical design efficiency and examples of mechanical design efficiency.

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the types of safeties a firearm has is pretty irrelevent if you have properly trained with that firearm. people have been carrying 1911's with their safety features for many years before Glock ever came on the scene. IMO, it comes down to what a person decides to carry and becomes proficient with that firearm and it's operation.
I believe the same thing. So why do 1911 owners point out that the Glock "safety" is on the trigger? What are they pointing out, aside from the obvious?

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and i will state these simple facts. anything that has moving parts or that is manmade can fail. be it a 1911 or a Glock, or a Smith & Wesson, or insert any brand name here.
Yes, and once you understand how and why mechanical devices fail you may, or may not if you choose to ignore the obvious, realize that anything with more parts in it that accomplish the same operation is subject to more potential and actual failures. In real life and using mathematics, it's provable that more complicated systems have more failures.

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i have seen too many 1911's in the past that have gone well over 10K rounds with no failures. so stating a Glock can do the same thing with no failures, proves nothing to me.
I've personally seen 3 of my own 1911's fail to make it half that far or even one tenth that far. I've seen lots of other people with 1911's have failures. I've seen very few Glocks fail, even with very little maintenance. Forgive me if I'm a little skeptical.

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an you keep bringing up running a Glock dry with no oil? well some of the torture tests of the old 1911's were dropping them in the mud and muck and shooting them. so again your point proves nothing again to me. if you want to abuse and not maintain your Glock and feel comfortable in doing so, then more power to you and i hope it never comes to haunt you at a most critical time. for me, i plan on keeping mine cleaned and maintained and inspected in case they might be needed then they will be.
I would never advocate doing that, but accidents happen. I want a pistol that has been proven to survive the odd stupid user accident.
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:15 PM   #240
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KB, the op wants to drop the debate as it's just going round and round. as such, i am not going to argue or debate the issue further with you.

you win. Glocks are better than a 1911. happy now?

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