Who's all excited about the new open carry law? - Page 5
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:35 PM   #41
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The MIT police officer, shot after the Boston bombings, was open carrying, and killed because two bad guys had one handgun, one too few, so the bad guy with the gun, walks up to the officer, politely asking directions, and out of the blue, shoots the officer, point blank in the head.

The officer had a holster that locked down the firearm, so they ended up running away without his gun. Police officer shot, killed to get his gun, which they failed at doing.

Open carry is a kettle of worms. No off duty officer open carries, for a good reason.
Considering the circumstances, the fact that the event didn't happen "in the call of duty", but simply while in uniform and on the clock, this particular instance, I think it could qualify as at least a viable example, but it doesn't make it a de facto risk.

If we were to really count this, it brings the counts of substantiated examples to exactly TWO. And there's still the fact that one happened overseas with a foreign national, and this one happened to a non civilian Law Enforcement Officer, who are already naturally at a slightly higher risk of criminal harm just for the nature of their job.

And your last sentence holds no weight as far as I'm concerned. I know several cops in Mississippi, here in West Monroe, Campus Cops, and about half of them OC off duty.

To say that "No off duty officer open carries, for a good reason." is the type of all inclusive, absolutist statement I'm fighting against here.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:50 PM   #42
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I think you have picked the wrong fight. Find something that is worth a cause and go for it. We have already achieved the right(in some states) to oc. Be happy in that and move along.

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Old 05-07-2013, 03:11 PM   #43
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I think you have picked the wrong fight. Find something that is worth a cause and go for it. We have already achieved the right(in some states) to oc. Be happy in that and move along.
I am happy that we have the right in so many states. I don't think it's an invalid fight, all I ask is that if people state something as fact, they back it up.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:20 PM   #44
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Seems like everytime i go to walmart i see these young cowboys drive their dodge trucks, then get out wearing spurs and their pants tucked in their boots just to walk around. I wonder how long it will be before i see someone walking around with duel six guns, lol

Going back to the old west scenario ...
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:34 PM   #45
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I actually put some serious thought into carrying a BP revolver. I figure, one of the biggest concerns with OC is that the "man with a gun" calls start pouring into the local PD or 911 call centers (and this is very well documented fact).

An old time BP revolver is probably among some of the least threatening looking guns that is somewhat viable as a self defense tool, and there may be less people concerned about it enough to call the cops. But there's no real basis for this theory other than my own opinion.

It's the "somewhat viable", and "may be's" that I've been hung up on.

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Old 05-07-2013, 03:58 PM   #46
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With open carry I think you are kinda asking for trouble

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Old 05-07-2013, 05:19 PM   #47
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With open carry I think you are kinda asking for trouble
The one thing I've seen so far that's a documented fact, is that it ties up Law Enforcement and wastes taxpayer money. When they get a "man with a gun" call, they HAVE to go check on it.

This is a huge waste of resources and manpower that are already dwindling at an alarming rate in a lot of cities.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:25 AM   #48
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I have no interest in arguing about the merits of OC. But I do OC and most people I meet think it strange. The general reason is some variation of "You'll be the first target." Maybe so, maybe not. My reasoning for OC is perhaps a little different and may provide some other food for thought.

If the bad guy comes in looking for a target, chances are he's going to shoot everything he can. Whether I'm the first target or the last makes little difference IF I CAN"T GET MY GUN OUT! I have tried a number of IWB tuckable holsters and find that I am unable to reliably clear my shirt to draw in any useful time. I ruined one shirt trying to figure out how to clear it, how to tuck it to make it easier, etc. I got to where I could clear the shirt in one pull perhaps 25% of the time. I tried timing a series of draws. After 10 draws I found I cleared the shirt in one try just twice. The other 8 attempts involved three or more pulling movements. Average time was over 10 seconds to get my gun. I'm pretty sure the bad guy is going to notice someone tearing at their clothes on the holster side. Probability of survival, low at best.

So, out of all possible scenarios, that one is one I probably won't survive. But I don't think I'd survive either way.

But for a large number of other scenarios, the presence of the gun functions as a deterrent. Bad guy enters looking for an easy score. Sees gun. Chooses another store or waits till the gun leaves. Chances of that being reported for statistical purposes, very low. Or, bad guy enters with concealed gun to scope it out. Decides to do something. Maybe I can see him do so, maybe I can't. But at least I have a chance at drawing in some useful time. Number of occurrences like this, zero.

I'm often mistaken for an off duty cop because of open carry. Lots of bad guys don't want to shoot a cop. They watch a lot of TV and believe that shooting a cop attracts more unwanted attention than just a private citizen. True or not, it may work in my favor some of the time.

What it comes down to is that I have not been able to figure out how to carry concealed with a reasonable chance of success. And in a lot of scenarios, the perceived disadvantage of OC is not as significant as the deterrent and the faster access when needed.

All of the above is merely my opinion and belief. I can't substantiate it with statistical studies. But I believe it enough to bet my life on it. YMMV.

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Old 05-08-2013, 01:34 AM   #49
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Kudos on you Balota. You said everything I would like to say myself.

On a side, have you tried different holsters? There's such a ridiculous number of options out there that a man could go broke trying them all. I would suggest trying to find a store that will let you try a few on. That is, if you would really like to go concealed and still be able to draw.

My longballer holster is great in every regard. It's a shame that particular vendor is no longer active, regardless of reasons. It's so secure, and draws beautifully. Reholstering can be a bit of an ordeal though, but I figure if I have to actually use my gun in self defense from the holster, I may not be too concerned about that at the moment.

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Old 05-08-2013, 01:36 AM   #50
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With open carry I think you are kinda asking for trouble
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Originally Posted by trip286 View Post
The one thing I've seen so far that's a documented fact, is that it ties up Law Enforcement and wastes taxpayer money. When they get a "man with a gun" call, they HAVE to go check on it.

This is a huge waste of resources and manpower that are already dwindling at an alarming rate in a lot of cities.
When I started OC on 1-Nov-12, I got myself a lanyard like people wear in airports to carry tickets, etc. and make it easier to go through security. My plan was to display my carry permit in the clear window in front. I expected there to be a lot of "OMG, he's got a gun!" calls. I figured if I carried into Walmart, I might find a couple squad cars waiting outside the doors for me to leave. I went all over the place on 1-Nov. No one noticed. Not one peep. Didn't even see a cop.

Edit: I still haven't seen a cop. There has not been a flurry of the OMG calls here in Oklahoma, at least not involving me.

Three weeks later I was going into Walmart and someone finally noticed the gun. He was entering with his family. His comment was something like "You're the first person I've seen OC. It's fine with me."

Since then I get a few comments per week. I've given up the lanyard since there seems no point to it.

I've joined IDPA and talked about it with folks there. They mostly feel that CC is better tactically. But when I tell them I have problems drawing from CC, they say (a) practice clearing your shirt or change your style of dress, (b) find a different CC method (fanny pack for example), and (c) either way, don't stop carrying.

Edit: I can't really change my style of dress since I work in an office as an engineer and need to wear business casual, tucked in shirt, etc. And I can't carry in the workplace, so I need to be able to remove my gun (and OWB holster) reasonably quickly. I've used a fanny pack, but the weight out front was killing my lower back. A pancake holster (like the one that came with my XDm) works perfectly for me.

First rule of gun fighting: bring a gun.
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Last edited by Balota; 05-08-2013 at 01:41 AM.
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