And why not carry smaller calibers? - Page 42
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Old 01-05-2014, 04:51 PM   #411
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There is obviously a lot of doubt. Otherwise everyone would carry them and we would not be having this discussion.
You are missing the point!!! The point is not to 'kill' but to incapacitate!!
Many times this incapacitate is terminal, but not always. That is why I made the point that the 'time from the hit to incapacitation' is critical.
If a person is hit in the heart with a 22 rf they will die, but will be able to 'fight' for quite awhile as the 'leak' is small and there is pressure inside the body helping to slow the blood loss (due to small entrance wound, small wound cavity and no exit wound). BUT it the same person were hit in the heart with one of the 'acceptable calibers' (9, 357, 40, 45) using modern SD ammo there would be a MUCH larger 'leak' and a large permanent wound cavity with a larger entry wound and probably an exit would which would facilitate rapid blood loss and thus a much faster incapitatation.
See the difference???
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Old 01-05-2014, 05:45 PM   #412
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You are missing the point!!! The point is not to 'kill' but to incapacitate!! Many times this incapacitate is terminal, but not always. That is why I made the point that the 'time from the hit to incapacitation' is critical. If a person is hit in the heart with a 22 rf they will die, but will be able to 'fight' for quite awhile as the 'leak' is small and there is pressure inside the body helping to slow the blood loss (due to small entrance wound, small wound cavity and no exit wound). BUT it the same person were hit in the heart with one of the 'acceptable calibers' (9, 357, 40, 45) using modern SD ammo there would be a MUCH larger 'leak' and a large permanent wound cavity with a larger entry wound and probably an exit would which would facilitate rapid blood loss and thus a much faster incapitatation. See the difference???
Hey you're preaching to the choir here man. Anything bigger than a 38spl is fine by me. I don't even own anything smaller than a 9mm. I was responding the post above mine who said that if a pellet gun could kill someone there was "no doubt" a .22, .25 or .32 would be an adequate self defense caliber. Obviously there is a flipping huge doubt. For the reasons listed in your post nothing smaller than 38spl is "adequate" unless there's no other choice due to an injury or seriously weak wrists.

On the same token there's nothing innately "special" about the 9mm, .40, .45 or .357. All create nearly identical permanent wound cavities and channels when modern JHPs are use. Consistent penetration(including through barriers), expansion, and the size of the hole/wound channel are all that matter as far as ballistics are concerned. Though I'm pretty sure you agree with that as well judging from previous posts.
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

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Old 01-05-2014, 11:47 PM   #413
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Hey you're preaching to the choir here man. Anything bigger than a 38spl is fine by me. I don't even own anything smaller than a 9mm. I was responding the post above mine who said that if a pellet gun could kill someone there was "no doubt" a .22, .25 or .32 would be an adequate self defense caliber. Obviously there is a flipping huge doubt. For the reasons listed in your post nothing smaller than 38spl is "adequate" unless there's no other choice due to an injury or seriously weak wrists.

On the same token there's nothing innately "special" about the 9mm, .40, .45 or .357. All create nearly identical permanent wound cavities and channels when modern JHPs are use. Consistent penetration(including through barriers), expansion, and the size of the hole/wound channel are all that matter as far as ballistics are concerned. Though I'm pretty sure you agree with that as well judging from previous posts.
AMEN BROTHER, says the choir!
So you too carried a 357 revolver for a time? I have no problem going in 'harms way' with a 357 wheel gun! I have trained MANY hours with one and feel very confident I could do as good, if not better, with my S&W model 19/66 as any of the autos used today by the 'new guys'! As a mater of fact when we would teach at the range for the new recruits myself and another instructor would shoot with the recruits on their final qual but we would use our 'old' wheel guns and we would out shoot 75 to 80% of them on a course designed for autos!!!
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Old 01-06-2014, 12:41 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by JimRau
AMEN BROTHER, says the choir! So you too carried a 357 revolver for a time? I have no problem going in 'harms way' with a 357 wheel gun! I have trained MANY hours with one and feel very confident I could do as good, if not better, with my S&W model 19/66 as any of the autos used today by the 'new guys'! As a mater of fact when we would teach at the range for the new recruits myself and another instructor would shoot with the recruits on their final qual but we would use our 'old' wheel guns and we would out shoot 75 to 80% of them on a course designed for autos!!!
Not hard to do considering the only shooting most of the new guys have ever done is with an XBOX controller unless they spent time in the military. lol
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."
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Old 01-06-2014, 01:00 AM   #415
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Everyone that plays call of dookie thinks there a soldier

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Old 01-06-2014, 01:14 AM   #416
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Btw with some of the newer sd ammo out there has made a pocket 380 much better for self defence.
I carry a 9mm in my truck
12ga for my home
45acp and 357 for hunting sidearm or just around the house. Fixing to add a 454/45lc/.410 judge to that mix but mainly for handgun hunting.
And pocket 22lr for my nightstand.
And my wife uses a pocket 380
I feel confident that all of these will be good enough to stop any normal threat but then again anything is possible.
I couldnt believe what convicts were making shanks out of. Its amazing how they can turn toilet paper to a shank hard enough to kill another prisoner.

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Old 01-06-2014, 12:06 PM   #417
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Never be afraid to use smaller calibers, if you shoot them well they can do the job and allow faster follow up shots. They will defend your life. For many years the .32 acp was very popular in Europe, many people used it for home and carry and it put quite a few in their graves.

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Old 01-06-2014, 01:02 PM   #418
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[quote=MaineMan;1469096]

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Originally Posted by Polygon View Post
I just don't trust a .22 .32 .380, etc, to penetrate enough to stop a threat. I don't care if they bleed out, die, run away, or sit down and play a game of tic tac toe. Just as long as they stop before causing me any harm. I don't trust the smaller calibers to do that. I'm sure they can stop them, but not as quickly as I'd like.

Your right! and the only thing I can think after reading this thread is that either...there have been a lot of people fooled into believing their little gun will save their arse after watching movies or advertisements, or we just have a lot of people that want to ignore the facts and make them feel better when they put that 32 in their pocket
There are times when you can't carry a bigger gun so I carry a ruger lcp 24/7. Its in my pocket even when I have my normal carry gun on me.

My lcp allows me to never violate rule one of self defense: have a gun, any gun.

Its not ideal but if its that or look for someone carrying a cop in their pocket I'll take the 380 lcp everytime. When I get up in the morning the chief of police isn't at my door with my issued police protection for the day and some places its not feasable to pack my m9a1 or 1911. For those times its great to have a little bitty lcp.
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Old 01-06-2014, 01:06 PM   #419
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Everyone that plays call of dookie thinks there a soldier

Happy Happy Happy
I play call of duty. One of my favorite games. Did my time in the 25th. I'm pretty sure my dd214 says I was a soldier in a past life.
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Old 01-06-2014, 01:23 PM   #420
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Dude I played conflict desert storm on ps2 while I was in Iraq and I play cod all the time I'm pretty sure my dd214 says I was a soldier too

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