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Old 12-09-2013, 10:38 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by mahall View Post
Well said!!
Yup, he nailed it. Different strokes for different folks, if nobody wanted it, they wouldnt make it! Its funny to watch some of these threads about preferences turn into shooting galleries. Lets face it, we all have our own ideas of what works for us and most folks really dont get as deep as we do when it comes to SD or Hunting Gear. Its funny to hear folks cut down small caliber bullets as ineffective when I have literally killed thousands of things with my 22 and very few with my 12 gauge shotgun comparatively! Longuns or Shortguns, Big or Little, Rifled or Scatter, Black plastic or Red Elm, are all situational and preference, no one shoe is ever gonna fit all of our feet!

Its always great to share ideas but we need to understand that all things being equal, they rarely are. Some people actually dont seek to blow a hole the size of a baseball in anything, others wont be happy with anything short of a grenade. Dont forget the reason the US moved to a smaller caliber while The USSR stayed heavy; it was just as effective, lighter and very deadly!

Smaller calibers work better than a left hook especially when your 92 and 110 lbs wet! Those seeking to do bad things and mean dogs will run if you shoot a 22 at them more likely that if you just call 911 and pray!
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:43 AM   #102
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Wha? You ever see the firearms the dedicated trigger pullers are using for house to house combat in the dirt pit right now? It ain't handguns.
Actually there are some militaries who use handguns for room clearing because of the maneuverability of them. The New Zealand infantry comes to mind. No I don't have a source other than my buddy, who got out of the Marine Corps recently, and was a NZ grunt before that (dual citizenship). He deployed to Indonesia at least twice and he said they always used handguns, tight to their chests, to clear rooms.

And I'm not trying to discredit what you said. I think we all know rifles and shotguns do more damage usually than handguns. But we should also remember that room clearing is not the only thing our guys do when deployed. They occasionaly have to reach out and touch someone at a couple hundred yards. So the versatility of rifles and carbines is another reason they tend to carry them (along with their handgun on their hips).
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:37 PM   #103
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[/QUOTE]The only way a handgun, ANY handgun, will stop a target with 1 shot is

1) a CNS shot (luck)
2) The bad guy got hurt/scared

A handgun pokes holes and causes blood loss. Once a BG loses a certain percentage of blood he passes out. That's the only reliable way to stop someone with a handgun. Everything else is BS.[/QUOTE]
History would disagree
On 7 July, Private Thomas A. Baker's position came under attack by a large Japanese force. Although seriously wounded early in the attack, he refused to be evacuated and continued to fight in the close-range battle until running out of ammunition. When a comrade was wounded while trying to carry him to safety, Baker insisted that he be left behind. At his request, his comrades left him propped against a tree and gave him a pistol, which had eight bullets remaining. When American forces retook the position, they found the pistol, now empty, and eight dead Japanese soldiers around Baker's body. Baker was posthumously promoted to sergeant and, on 9 May 1945, awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions throughout the battle for Saipan. He was buried at Gerald B. H. Solomon Saratoga National Cemetery in Schuylerville, New York.

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Old 12-09-2013, 12:40 PM   #104
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I just have to think that 2 or 3 quick shots in center mass from a .22 mag or a .32 acp would get the attention of a criminal. Sure one .45 round would possibly knock him right down. But I doubt anyone could stand laughing or still plan on coming at you with a couple of these smaller rounds in their chest.

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Old 12-09-2013, 02:36 PM   #105
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I like a 9mm 124gr HP, I would hate to take 2or3 of these at center mass. I usally keep a .45 under my baseball cap on the far lefthand side of my carpeted dash in my pick-up. this can be used in a hurry if car jacked. most people who carry don't shoot thier pistols enough to stay in tune with their gun, this could get you killed!

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Old 12-09-2013, 03:54 PM   #106
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The idea is to stop the threat.
Sometimes, all it takes is to display a weapon,
Sometimes, a hit with a .22lr,
Sometimes, a lot of lead in a big caliber,
Sometimes, words.

What does it require to stop the next threat you or I come to?
(If I knew that, I would know what to use. But I don't know. So I prepare for the worse.)

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Old 12-09-2013, 04:23 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by jarrodsquito View Post
There really is no reason with quality ammunition to not carry a smaller caliber but there actually are several reasons you should.

First lets talk about the mythical powers of the .45ACP. It has a little under 10% increase in power vs a 9mm. It was developed because in warfare it is generally accepted that hollow points are "illegal." The U.S. is not a member of the Hague Convention and has never agreed to it but has followed it. The slower traveling .45 ACP has less chance of going all the way through the threat and transfers most of its energy to the threat.

With modern defensive ammunition the bullets expand and are more effective than FMJ. A 9mm Defensive round is far superior to a .45 FMJ. Guys who love the .45 ACP will defend it to the bitter end. They also will carry a less effective bullet (.45 FMJ) because their 1911 that they cant even think could be inferior to a striker fired gun will jam if they feed defensive ammunition.

A smaller caliber defensive round can give you the ability to shoot faster and more accurately with an even greater effect to the target. You have less recoil to manage and can carry a smaller lighter pistol.
The problem is it seems emotion/myth are hard to defeat with science and logic.
The myth is that a 'larger caliber' bullet will have more 'stopping power/knock down power'. To start with there is no such thing, in the real world of gun fights, as 'stopping power or knock down power' and prior to the development of modern 'expanding' bullets there was some truth that a larger caliber NON EXPANDING bullet would stop the fight quicker, but even that is debatable as far has the realistic effect. A hole in the heart which is .010 larger (.355 to .45) will cause a difference in blood loss which would actually cause the person to 'stop fighting' any quicker is questionable.
The only thing, short of a central nervous system hit, THAT WILL stop a person is blood loss caused by a well placed LARGE (wide and deep) PERMANENT wound cavity, not 'hydro static shock', which is simple 'stretching of the tissue. The permanent wound cavity caused by ALL of the main defense caliber, (9, 40, 38/357, 45) when using the best defense ammo available are within 5% of each other so for all intents they are realistically the same.
This tread address the use of smaller caliber/less powerful/less effective calibers for self defense. There are several things which come into play here which consider reality and human nature not ballistics as it is obvious the science and actual shootings shows, without a doubt, these 'lesser' calibers are a lot less effective in STOPPING an aggressive human target, just a fact.
So the most important part of this discussion is:
"If you can't reach out and touch your PPD when you need it it is worthless to you" PERIOD!!!
That said, "When it comes to armed self defense, SOMETHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING."
It all boils down to a compromise between your ability to carry your PPD comfortable enough that you WILL CARRY IT ALL THE TIME, and your ability to shoot the PPD accurately and the ability of your chosen caliber/bullet to penetrate to the vitals and create a LONG WIDE PERMANENT WOUND CHANNEL.
So where are your priorities??????
There is no reason, in today's market place, why anyone can not find a PPD which is small enough to carry comfortably, and shoot well in one of the calibers which has shown to be 'most effective' if you wish to survive a lethal confrontation.
Nuff said.
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Last edited by JimRau; 12-09-2013 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 12-09-2013, 04:38 PM   #108
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It's been a while since I posted this video to FTF, here is the best info. I've seen on the difference between calibers when it comes to wounding and death.

The video is a little long, but it is very enlightening.

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Old 12-09-2013, 06:49 PM   #109
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I wont carry anything smaller than a .380.
Beretta 84F and S&W Bodyguard 380 are my 2 main conceal carry .380s.
I like the Beretta because I can rack to chamber a round,decock it,and it's ready to go.Same with the Bodyguard.Rack it and it's ready.Sometimes I'll carry the Glock 17 or Beretta Nano,but I feel much safer carrying DA/SA or DAO guns.

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Old 12-09-2013, 07:55 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by eatmydust View Post
It's been a while since I posted this video to FTF, here is the best info. I've seen on the difference between calibers when it comes to wounding and death.

The video is a little long, but it is very enlightening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXwPtP-KDNk&feature=player_detailpage
I have seen this MANY times on the web. It does nothing to address which caliber/bullet is best for self defense. At it's best it is a good training video for medical first responders, nothing more.
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