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-   -   Who is your Gunsmith when SHTF? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f14/who-your-gunsmith-when-shtf-37773/)

M14sRock 02-02-2011 03:37 AM

Who is your Gunsmith when SHTF?
 
I have a policy regarding my guns. They need to be user friendly and easily maintained.

I need to know that in a worst case scenario I can repair any of them that may need it. This means that I keep spare parts on hand for the guns I have, and I know how to fit and install them.

So there are a lot of great guns on the market that I have no interest in using anymore.

Guns that use rivets or proprietary roll pins are not suitable for long term use. Why? Because if the guns you own today became the only guns you would ever own, are you capable of keeping them running? When a gunsmith or warranty center is no longer available, can you keep your guns running? In my case the answer is “yes”.

Guns that go "Sproing!" when you take them apart may not be the best to have when SHTF.

HK policy is that once a roll pin has been removed it should be discarded and replaced with a new one. For someone like me who does periodic detail stripping and cleaning, that policy does not work. Great guns, but not conducive to long term maintenance. Can those roll pins be reused in a pinch? Of course. But for how many uses?

Sig Sauer “P” series pistols are famous for shedding grip screws (and having grips fall off). And under the right side grip is a spring that is crucial to the operation of the pistol. But those plastic grips are easily broken, thereby exposing the easily lost spring. The pain truth is that Sigs are fragile and easily taken off line. But they are fairly easy to detail strip.

CZ makes some great pistols. World class. But they have lots of small parts, and spare parts are not readily available. A lack of spare parts is not good. CZ’s take a ton of hard use, but when they break they are a pain to repair.

Ruger is well known for keeping their spare parts strictly controlled. Good luck finding spare parts for most Rugers.

Browning Hi Powers are very easy to maintain and work on. Not all parts fit each version though, so have your spares on hand. Spares are also tough to track down at times.

1911s? They are the interesting pistol. A 1911 is brilliantly designed to be detail stripped with no tools other than the parts of the pistol. They take ton of abuse before parts start failing, usually. But those parts are not typically considered “drop in”. They can require some fitting, so I consider the 1911 a “tinkerers pistol”. Parts quality also varies greatly from one company to the next. But anyone who is even moderately mechanically inclined can keep a 1911 running. Just be aware of issues like non standard firing pins from one maker to the next. SAI uses proprietary firing pins. Know what your gun needs. And beware when using full length guide rods, super tight bushings and hex head grip screws. They can all require extra tools to remove.

Glocks are the easiest to maintain. Take down can be done with something as simple as a stiff paperclip, or a nail. As a bonus, all of the spare parts a Glock is likely to ever need can be stored inside the hollow cavity in the grip. And Glock parts require absolutely no fitting at all. The tolerances are kept very tight in the manufacturing process, so all parts interchange.

In the revolver world, S&Ws are the easiest to maintain and also the easiest for which to get spare parts.


So if your SHTF pistol is your only pistol, make sure you have a rudimentary knowledge of how it works, and how to keep it running. Get the spare parts you may need to keep it running and pre-fit and test them while they are available. And make sure you have a good supply of spare springs no matter what you use. Springs wear out fast. Some countries restrict gun parts like they do guns. Get spares now.

lonyaeger 02-02-2011 03:39 AM

Really good post. I know who I'll be following around like a puppy dog when the SHTF!

Dillinger 02-02-2011 03:49 AM

Quote:

Who is your Gunsmith when SHTF?
I am.

And if I run into trouble, my gunsmith also happens to be a former military type that did work on 5 continents and he happens to be in my A/O ( just across the water and about 5 blocks in actually.

But a great idea for a thread. ;)

JD

M14sRock 02-02-2011 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 435011)
I am.



JD

"Ding, Ding, Ding!!!" That is the answer.

It was a rhetorical question.

billdeserthills 02-02-2011 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M14sRock (Post 434999)
I have a policy regarding my guns. They need to be user friendly and easily maintained.

I need to know that in a worst case scenario I can repair any of them that may need it. This means that I keep spare parts on hand for the guns I have, and I know how to fit and install them.

So there are a lot of great guns on the market that I have no interest in using anymore.

Guns that use rivets or proprietary roll pins are not suitable for long term use. Why? Because if the guns you own today became the only guns you would ever own, are you capable of keeping them running? When a gunsmith or warranty center is no longer available, can you keep your guns running? In my case the answer is “yes”.

Guns that go "Sproing!" when you take them apart may not be the best to have when SHTF.

HK policy is that once a roll pin has been removed it should be discarded and replaced with a new one. For someone like me who does periodic detail stripping and cleaning, that policy does not work. Great guns, but not conducive to long term maintenance. Can those roll pins be reused in a pinch? Of course. But for how many uses?

Sig Sauer “P” series pistols are famous for shedding grip screws (and having grips fall off). And under the right side grip is a spring that is crucial to the operation of the pistol. But those plastic grips are easily broken, thereby exposing the easily lost spring. The pain truth is that Sigs are fragile and easily taken off line. But they are fairly easy to detail strip.

CZ makes some great pistols. World class. But they have lots of small parts, and spare parts are not readily available. A lack of spare parts is not good. CZ’s take a ton of hard use, but when they break they are a pain to repair.

Ruger is well known for keeping their spare parts strictly controlled. Good luck finding spare parts for most Rugers.

Browning Hi Powers are very easy to maintain and work on. Not all parts fit each version though, so have your spares on hand. Spares are also tough to track down at times.

1911s? They are the interesting pistol. A 1911 is brilliantly designed to be detail stripped with no tools other than the parts of the pistol. They take ton of abuse before parts start failing, usually. But those parts are not typically considered “drop in”. They can require some fitting, so I consider the 1911 a “tinkerers pistol”. Parts quality also varies greatly from one company to the next. But anyone who is even moderately mechanically inclined can keep a 1911 running. Just be aware of issues like non standard firing pins from one maker to the next. SAI uses proprietary firing pins. Know what your gun needs. And beware when using full length guide rods, super tight bushings and hex head grip screws. They can all require extra tools to remove.

Glocks are the easiest to maintain. Take down can be done with something as simple as a stiff paperclip, or a nail. As a bonus, all of the spare parts a Glock is likely to ever need can be stored inside the hollow cavity in the grip. And Glock parts require absolutely no fitting at all. The tolerances are kept very tight in the manufacturing process, so all parts interchange.

In the revolver world, S&Ws are the easiest to maintain and also the easiest for which to get spare parts.


So if your SHTF pistol is your only pistol, make sure you have a rudimentary knowledge of how it works, and how to keep it running. Get the spare parts you may need to keep it running and pre-fit and test them while they are available. And make sure you have a good supply of spare springs no matter what you use. Springs wear out fast. Some countries restrict gun parts like they do guns. Get spares now.


Dude- Really Now,
Roll pins can be your friend, all you hafta do is buy an assortment of them
Many gunmakers offer a "spare parts kit" especially for the paranoid at heart.
Why not get yourself a tube of "Lock-Tite" Blue color is a good beginning.
Brownells carries a huge assortment of parts for 1911's & other guns.
I can't believe anyone on a gun forum only owns one gun?

M14sRock 02-02-2011 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdeserthills (Post 435047)
Dude- Really Now,
Roll pins can be your friend, all you hafta do is buy an assortment of them
Many gunmakers offer a "spare parts kit" especially for the paranoid at heart.
Why not get yourself a tube of "Lock-Tite" Blue color is a good beginning.
Brownells carries a huge assortment of parts for 1911's & other guns.
I can't believe anyone on a gun forum only owns one gun?

Not intended to get your panties in a bunch, Bill. It was intended to get people thinking about who is gonna fix their broken guns when there are no gunsmiths, warranty centers or Brownells and Numrich's left.

Everything you posted is true, but how many gun owners have the spare parts they need and the skills to replace them? Not the majority.

I know people who only have enough ammo on hand to load a couple of mags, and have seen plenty that don't keep ANY ammo on hand.

JonM 02-02-2011 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M14sRock (Post 434999)
I have a policy regarding my guns. They need to be user friendly and easily maintained.


1911s? They are the interesting pistol. A 1911 is brilliantly designed to be detail stripped with no tools other than the parts of the pistol. They take ton of abuse before parts start failing, usually. But those parts are not typically considered “drop in”. They can require some fitting, so I consider the 1911 a “tinkerers pistol”. Parts quality also varies greatly from one company to the next. But anyone who is even moderately mechanically inclined can keep a 1911 running. Just be aware of issues like non standard firing pins from one maker to the next. SAI uses proprietary firing pins. Know what your gun needs. And beware when using full length guide rods, super tight bushings and hex head grip screws. They can all require extra tools to remove.

my choice is ar15 which is obvious parts wise and milspec 1911. colt/springfield/ww2 make. reason being that while new parts need fitting you seldom need to fit parts when moved as a unit once they are working when moving to a new frame. 1911 milspec also seldom break. once fitted together sear disconector hammer safety can often be transferred as a unit.

ive got enough spare parts to keep my 1911's until ive long since exhausted any realistic ammo supply or need.

anyway thats been my experience. ive experimented between my ithaca, springfield and series 70 and all parts interchange 100%.

ive thought about that shtf where to get parts problem as well.

this is one of several reasons i wont put my faith in glock.

http://www.wingman26.com/images/shooting/kb1.jpg

if the case is a little long or or bulging a scootch, which is very liekly in a shtf reloading session where time is precious and exhaustion a real factor. making perfect ammo to prevent the above is not something i care to risk when a glock can and will fire a round when slightly out of battery. leading to a lot of unsupported case with stock barrels. aftermarket barrels can alliviate some of the danger.

Dillinger 02-02-2011 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M14sRock (Post 435013)
"Ding, Ding, Ding!!!" That is the answer.

It was a rhetorical question.

Thanks. I understand it was rhetorical, I was answering to keep the thread going and give you props for a good thread idea. ;)

JD

M14sRock 02-02-2011 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 435056)
Thanks. I understand it was rhetorical, I was answering to keep the thread going and give you props for a good thread idea. ;)

JD

I know. Me too!:D

M14sRock 02-02-2011 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 435053)
my choice is ar15 which is obvious parts wise and milspec 1911. colt/springfield/ww2 make. reason being that while new parts need fitting you seldom need to fit parts when moved as a unit once they are working when moving to a new frame. 1911 milspec also seldom break. once fitted together sear disconector hammer safety can often be transferred as a unit.

ive got enough spare parts to keep my 1911's until ive long since exhausted any realistic ammo supply or need.

anyway thats been my experience. ive experimented between my ithaca, springfield and series 70 and all parts interchange 100%.

ive thought about that shtf where to get parts problem as well.

this is one of several reasons i wont put my faith in glock.

http://www.wingman26.com/images/shooting/kb1.jpg


Check the firing pin on your Springfield. I think you will see that it is not the same as a Colt, or USGI FP. No issue, but get a spare for an SAI from Brownells. As far back as 1987 (that I know of) Springfield Armory was using a FP very similar to a .38Super FP. But USGI 1911 parts have dried up.

And that blown case in the Glock is due to high pressure loads causing a case rupture. It is an ammo problem, not a gun problem. 1911's do that too, which is the main reason for fully supported chambers and ramped barrels on many custom 1911's. .45ACP is not a high pressure round, so hot (+P, +P+) loads can cause problems. Standard velocity ammo will never be a problem in a Glock .40 or .45.


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