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Old 06-21-2013, 11:26 AM   #31
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Embarrassing oneself in front of a huge congregation because you failed to lower the gain on the offending microphone may be uncomfortable but its nothing to gauge your ability to react to immediate danger. Those are two different parts of the brain your talking about, one is feeling bad, the other is feeling dead.

I hunted deer when I was young, I hunted them but never shot one! Ive killed other critters, lots of them, most were eaten unless they were just pelt animals. The couple times I had a buck in my sights, I didnt shoot. Im not sure if it was buck fever or I just wasnt dedicated to the kill of something half the size of the cows I would milk.

Im the trained Killer and NCO the US Army Infantry made me in 21 years of service but I'm not tested at killing for real, only with MILES and other non lethal forms of feedback. In my heart and brain, I think the situation dictates your actions and reactions as much as anything. I wasnt worried about the Buck killing me or my loved ones or starving to death but criminals, thugs, terrorists and necessity are a whole different ball of wax.

Ive fired weapons of all shapes and sizes my entire life so Im not worried about my comfort with the tool; my sense of urgency and situational awareness has been honed every day of my life. Im pretty sure it will serve me well if Im ever called upon to act with terminal velocity literally and figuratively, god willing.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:34 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by winds-of-change View Post
In the particular situation you mentioned with the feed back, maybe what made you freeze is that you knew all eyes were on you. In a SHTF situation, you will not be the center of attention and that might change your reaction.
Actually Chris, I meant to include "public speaking" in my list...
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:37 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
Bingo...

A guy with no more training than "whatever he got" from his Florida CCW class, took it upon himself be a neighborhood watch person and simply got taken down by a level of aggression he did not anticipate and was not prepared to handle.

In the end, he was able to draw and fire, possibly saving his life, but a trained aggressive posture with strong verbal commands may have prevented the attack in the first place and dissuaded Martin's aggression before things escalated to gun fire.

I don't expect everyone who carries to be "Jeff Cooper"... but there are lessons to be learned for all, from the plight of George Zimmerman.

Tack
The "kid" was high, went to the store for "munchies," and became bent on murder at a symbol of authority -- let's not forget that. "Tonight you're gonna die" wasn't gonna be stopped by "command voice."
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Old 06-21-2013, 04:32 PM   #34
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The "kid" was high, went to the store for "munchies," and became bent on murder at a symbol of authority -- let's not forget that. "Tonight you're gonna die" wasn't gonna be stopped by "command voice."
...and I agree. Don't get me wrong, I've not problem with GZ putting a bullet into TM. I've seen the photos of GZ's head and face on the night in question and there is not doubt he was being beaten into the concrete when he pulled the trigger.

...but... a thug is a thug and in my experience, they do NOT attack an opponent who is obviously prepared to deal with them.

We could second guess GZ's actions until the cow come home. What is obvious to me is that he had little, if any, training in dealing with attackers. I believe that being on the phone with 911 gave him a false sense of security, and I believe his situational awareness sucked.

Had he seen Martin approach him, ordered him to stop, and made it clear that he was armed, there is "in my opinion" a very good chance Martin would have walked away...

I say this because I had a similar encounter years ago in South Tacoma WA. 1:00 A.M. walking down 56th street in the dark, heard voices coming at me, noticed them before they noticed me. Saw one of them tapping the other two, gesturing in my direction, and the three of them began to fan out.

I stopped, brushed back my jacket, grabbed the grip of my 1911 and shouted HALT in a commanding voice.

After that, I saw nothing but TEETH and EYEBALLS in the dark as the "oh sh1t!" reality struck all 3... who promptly sprinted across 56th street and disappeared into a dark neighborhood.

At the time, I was 25 days out of orthopedic back surgery, bone grafts, and 11 pieces of Government hardware in my lower back so a strong breeze could have put me in the ER...

Really glad they decided to run.

Tack
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Old 06-21-2013, 04:40 PM   #35
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Matt makes a very good point here.

Shooting competitions are excellent for improving your defensive gun skills but... fighting is fighting, whether it's with a gun, a fist, or whatever.

The guy who backed away, bought time, and avoided engaging in the unavoidable fist fight as a kid, is the same guy who will hesitate to engage with a gun... IMHO.

Boxing or Mixed Martial Arts is an excellent way to overcome the "fear of engagement" and do it in a safe environment.

Matt is 100% correct about "getting hit"... it has a "magical" way of knocking the hesitation right out of you.

Tack


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SHOOTING competition? That's not what you need Chris. What you need is a little more up close and personal. To overcome that instinct of fear and know when to flee or fight and be able to do the latter more confidently and at your discretion, not someone elses. May I suggest, barring US Military Basic Training...

Boxing
Karate or some such martial sport
Fencing
Rugby

Hit and be hit!

It'll do wonders for your psychological and physical well being.

Two last things...

First: you are SUPPOSED to avoid fights. That could include running away. But you are always supposed to be able to be the one who walks away from one.

Second: you are not less important than someone else -- don't be so quick to "sacrifice" yourself. It's a nice, stupid, sentiment.
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Old 06-22-2013, 04:49 AM   #36
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The book, On Killing by David Grossman is available from Amazon . See link : http://www.amazon.com/On-Killing-Psychological-Learning-Society/dp/0316040932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371875957&sr=8-1&keywords=on+killing+by+david+grossman .
The late Jim Cirillo, who killed eight men in eight gunfights while on the NYPD Stakeout Squad, said that he found that his unconcious mind took over and he reacted as he trained under stress . His books are sold by Amazon and his videos by Paladin Press : http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_11?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=jim+cirillo&sprefix=jim+cirillo%2Caps%2C2 32 .

http://www.paladin-press.com/product/Jim_Cirillo_Set
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Old 06-22-2013, 04:55 AM   #37
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I have definitely heard that the training involved in MMA or boxing has as much to do with learning skills as it does with learning how to respond after getting hit (or even learning to respond at all instead of just shutting down).

Since I've never been hit, I must admit that getting my clock cleaned on a mat in a dojo scares the crap out of me.
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Old 06-22-2013, 04:46 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by CHLChris View Post
I have definitely heard that the training involved in MMA or boxing has as much to do with learning skills as it does with learning how to respond after getting hit (or even learning to respond at all instead of just shutting down).

Since I've never been hit, I must admit that getting my clock cleaned on a mat in a dojo scares the crap out of me.
CHL, it is a sport. A contact sport, but a sport. It isn't Fight Club! Unless you want it to be...

Useful stuff all around. Ask around. Try a place for a few visits and see what you enjoy.
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:38 PM   #39
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No one on here not even me can tell you how to react to a stressful situation ! Not even a book can help. You have to figure it out on your own. Whether its to freeze and do nothing or take charge.
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Old 06-22-2013, 08:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHLChris View Post
I have definitely heard that the training involved in MMA or boxing has as much to do with learning skills as it does with learning how to respond after getting hit (or even learning to respond at all instead of just shutting down).

Since I've never been hit, I must admit that getting my clock cleaned on a mat in a dojo scares the crap out of me.
Which is why boxing gyms and dojo's are your best source for ^^THIS^^ type of training.

Martial skills folks, in my experience, are as friendly and pleasant as gun folks because "pleasantness is reinforced by "confidence."

...and it's a contolled environment. The instructor is not going to retain any students if he's allowing the advanced students to beat down the rookies.

Give it a shot... Like Matt said, most allow several free classes to see if you like the school so there is no reason to not check it out.

I've got a box of .45 ACP that says you'll enjoy it and learn ALOT about what your trully capable of.

Good Luck

Tack
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