When the balloon goes up...WILL I FREEZE? - Page 3
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:10 PM   #21
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Jeff Cooper's color code should be useful :
In " condition orange " , make up your mind in advance that you will take a given action if the threat takes some action and things go to " red " . Example : " If that guy rushes me, I'm going to sidestep and punch " .

George Zimmerman was probably in " condition white " while he looked for a house number and waited for the police . He may have entered condition yellow when Trayvon Martin walked up behind him to confront him but he was probably not in condition orange . I surmise that he did not expect to be attacked by a thin youth, had not planned for such a situation and was taken by surprise .
I admit that we don't know the facts of the case but I'm using news reports simply as a basis for training .

In the above example, reactionary gap, defensive stance and spoken commands might have helped Zimmerman...along with Jeff Cooper !

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Old 06-20-2013, 04:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by CHLChris View Post
The reason I think about it is because my heart very much wants to be the type that immediately goes to the aid of my fellow man. I already do when I have my full faculties. I guess I am mostly thinking of what I might do when the adrenaline gets dumped into the veins.

There are many of you here that are very encouraging!

Something I REALLY want to get into more is competition. At least that is getting experience in decision-making and (sort of) threat assessment while being stressed at some level.
SHOOTING competition? That's not what you need Chris. What you need is a little more up close and personal. To overcome that instinct of fear and know when to flee or fight and be able to do the latter more confidently and at your discretion, not someone elses. May I suggest, barring US Military Basic Training...

Boxing
Karate or some such martial sport
Fencing
Rugby

Hit and be hit!

It'll do wonders for your psychological and physical well being.

Two last things...

First: you are SUPPOSED to avoid fights. That could include running away. But you are always supposed to be able to be the one who walks away from one.

Second: you are not less important than someone else -- don't be so quick to "sacrifice" yourself. It's a nice, stupid, sentiment.
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:34 PM   #23
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Read the book "On Killing" can't remember the authors name, sorry, but if you google it the book I'm speaking of will pop right up. I had a squad leader who made us read it on my first deployment to afghanistan and while it is geared mainly toward soldiers, it will give you some incredible insight to human nature and natural responses when facing life or death situations. Probably won't give you the answers you're looking for but will help you understand what your body is naturally telling you to do and control those impulses so you can act more in the way you think you would like to.

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Old 06-20-2013, 05:39 PM   #24
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Combat, at any level, is 90% mental. And success in combat, at any level, is 90% preparation.

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Old 06-20-2013, 05:51 PM   #25
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Before I retired, I was a teacher in a high school for over 20 years. I have seen and been involved in my share of student fights. By that, I mean I have broken up many fights. Sometimes boys bigger than me would be going at it. Being the H.S. wrestling coach, I could protect myself and I could usually stop the fight peacefully and with no harm done to either student. I was only hit once and that was a glancing blow that was not intended for me, but for the other student. Usually, just my presence was enough to stop it, especially when I stepped in and they knew I meant business. Now, being physically disabled (for reasons not related to teaching or coaching) I don't know how effective I could be in any traumatic situation, but I think I would still try.
ct

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:14 PM   #26
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You know what, Chris? It's okay to 'freeze'. Not everyone is the same and in a crisis/chaos/trauma there is a job for everyone. Some people are natural born leaders, some are better as followers. I am not a leader but I am a great "grunt". Give me a job and I'll do it endlessly and to the best of my abilities. Years ago, I was an EMT-P. I didn't like being the lead in a code but I could follow the commands and push meds very well. I was also the best one at starting the IV's. Others would shy away from that.

IF S should HTF you will have a purpose and a role to play. It's a good thing we are all good at different things because that's what makes a team. If we were all good at the same thing, that wouldn't get us very far.

In the particular situation you mentioned with the feed back, maybe what made you freeze is that you knew all eyes were on you. In a SHTF situation, you will not be the center of attention and that might change your reaction.

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Old 06-20-2013, 09:31 PM   #27
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Ya hear that Chris... "WHAT WINDS SAID"

Listen... my little ones will still need a education in music even after the SHTF... so grab the wife, all the food and water you can haul... and HIGH TAIL IT out of Portland and across the creek... we can all hunker down together.

Tack

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You know what, Chris? It's okay to 'freeze'. Not everyone is the same and in a crisis/chaos/trauma there is a job for everyone. Some people are natural born leaders, some are better as followers. I am not a leader but I am a great "grunt". Give me a job and I'll do it endlessly and to the best of my abilities. Years ago, I was an EMT-P. I didn't like being the lead in a code but I could follow the commands and push meds very well. I was also the best one at starting the IV's. Others would shy away from that.

IF S should HTF you will have a purpose and a role to play. It's a good thing we are all good at different things because that's what makes a team. If we were all good at the same thing, that wouldn't get us very far.

In the particular situation you mentioned with the feed back, maybe what made you freeze is that you knew all eyes were on you. In a SHTF situation, you will not be the center of attention and that might change your reaction.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:41 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentacop View Post
Jeff Cooper's color code should be useful :
In " condition orange " , make up your mind in advance that you will take a given action if the threat takes some action and things go to " red " . Example : " If that guy rushes me, I'm going to sidestep and punch " .

George Zimmerman was probably in " condition white " while he looked for a house number and waited for the police . He may have entered condition yellow when Trayvon Martin walked up behind him to confront him but he was probably not in condition orange . I surmise that he did not expect to be attacked by a thin youth, had not planned for such a situation and was taken by surprise .
I admit that we don't know the facts of the case but I'm using news reports simply as a basis for training .

In the above example, reactionary gap, defensive stance and spoken commands might have helped Zimmerman...along with Jeff Cooper !
Bingo...

A guy with no more training than "whatever he got" from his Florida CCW class, took it upon himself be a neighborhood watch person and simply got taken down by a level of aggression he did not anticipate and was not prepared to handle.

In the end, he was able to draw and fire, possibly saving his life, but a trained aggressive posture with strong verbal commands may have prevented the attack in the first place and dissuaded Martin's aggression before things escalated to gun fire.

I don't expect everyone who carries to be "Jeff Cooper"... but there are lessons to be learned for all, from the plight of George Zimmerman.

Tack
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:41 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by CHLChris View Post
I have heard that there are a few different types of people in a critical situation--when the balloon goes up. There are those who will run away when something bad happens, those who will run toward the chaos to help, and those who freeze.

I have really never been a part of anything traumatic so I guess I don't know which I'd be. My heart and brain desperately want to be the type who will run toward so I can help. But something happened that makes me wonder...

I run sound at my church. This is actually a HUGE church and the sound system is so large, it takes two people. I am the #2. During a rehearsal I was messing with something on the board and I caused a feedback loop, which caused the entire building to start squealing louder than you could imagine. Of course, everything and everyone stopped and looked at me with surprised looks. I froze during my adrenaline dump. My brain knew five or six things to do to make it stop, but the immediate stress made me freeze and I was unable to process what to do to stop the squeals. The #1 sound tech had to run over and fix it for me. I was jittery for two more hours, much like after a car wreck. I FROZE.

How do we know what sort of person we are until something actually happens? This wasn't life or death, but perhaps it opened a window into how I might actually behave in an active shooter or something more personal.

Any thoughts?
I know the feeling. I have had 2 incidents. Me and a friend were driving home from dinner in 30 degree weather. 2 cars collided at top speed, causing a massive collision. One lady was not wearing her seatbelt and had blood all over her face. I was shaking so bad, partially due to the weather but mostly due to the devastation of the wreck. I gave her first aid and studied her condition until the paramedics arrived. She was fine but still I was shooken up. I still helped her out and was happy with my reaction. As I posted before, a family member alerted me of an unidentified suspect in our drive way late at night. I grabbed my shotgun and sheltered in until the person was identified. I did not freeze up but my heart was RACING. Stress under a situation comes natural to some people, others freeze. There are certain ways to prepare yourself mentally and physically like getting an alarm system to alert you and prepare you for someone that may walk into your room, as oppose to hearing footsteps.

The reason you mostly froze was embarrassment. Defense and social reputation are very different. So don't worry too much when a defensive situation may happen.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:55 AM   #30
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Honestly, this is one of the best and most interesting threads I have read in some time. Excellent advice and perspective in many, many cases here. I frequent a few forums and the tone here seems, generally, more civil and informed than any of the others.

CHLChris had asked in the original post, "How do we know what sort of person we are until something actually happens?" And as has been noted a number of times in this thread - we don't. I have been party to events where the same person reacted totally differently to multiple chaotic situations, all of them with varying levels of stress involved. Usually, again, we really don't know until...

I do believe that physical practice can help but I think that it is more because of the emotional confidence that one may have gained through that practice. When any intense or stressful situation occurs, our reactions will be driven by our frame of mind, and if we are feeling good about where we are at that particular time in our life we have a somewhat better chance of reacting in a more controlled, if you will, manner. Again, I am not saying that if you feel good you'll be fine, it's just that when one has developed a certain confidence in themselves, their chances of a more controlled reaction are improved.

A few years back I worked with a guy who was quite an expert on firearms and survival techniques...at least as he told it. Now I have no doubt that he was well practiced with guns and I did see him in action, twice, at the range. He was an excellent shot and seemed to know the mechanics of firearms very well. He was also quite a d'bag. He was constantly telling people how little they knew about surviving an attack or how they were simply, prey for the bad guys. He practiced situational techniques every day and had plans well in place for most possibilities. He used to talk about hoping that someone would try to break in to his "fortress" or accost him on the street, so that he could "take care of some business" as he used to say. To most, he was a tough guy who feared nothing and was prepared to handle most any situation. I never quite bought it but, hey, I'm kind of a skeptic.

So one night, it all breaks loose at his house and it looks like it's "go time". He and his family were awoken by the sound of breaking glass, followed by the dog barking loudly. My coworker grabbed his bedside gun (I believe it was a revolver in .357), tried to yell something that came out as more of a groan (his wife relayed the story to others, afterward) and fired two shots, blindly, down the hallway. One shot tore a decent sized hole in the bedroom door of his son's room, but no one was hit, and the second shot hit his dog in the hip, causing a permanent limp from that day on. The breaking glass was caused by a ladder that he had not secured properly which subsequently fell from where it was leaning and went through a side window.

You just don't know until it happens.

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