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-   -   Unfounded bashing & rumors (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f14/unfounded-bashing-rumors-18944/)

NGIB 10-08-2009 11:56 AM

Unfounded bashing & rumors
 
The .22 pistol thread reminded me to post this one and it deals with "spreading the rumors". Many folks hear the term MIM and they immediately say any gun with MIM is not worth buying. Now I have NEVER heard or read that the MIM hammer & trigger in a S&W revolver has ever failed. Anyone with evidence to the contrary - please post it up. Now while I don't shun S&W (or Ruger) for using MIM parts, I also draw the line at times.

A slide release in a 1911 takes a battering every time the gun fires. I have personally seen MIM slide releases fail - so I will not have MIM parts in what I consider high stress areas. To me this is just good sense and it's not bashing or rumor. It doesn't cost much to upgrade and it's cheaper than buying a high-end no MIM 1911.

Taurus is another category that gets bashed a lot. My personal experience with Taurus is not real good and I share it as first hand experience when appropriate. My son bought a new 24/7 Pro and within a week the trigger started to malfunction. This one went back to the factory and was gone 11 weeks - he sold it when it was returned.

I was to cheap to pony up and pay for a 617 (back then) so I got a new Taurus 94 .22 revolver. The DA trigger pull was terrible and it would occasionally bind. I kept it squeaky clean and lubed but it was just not a reliable gun so I sold it at a loss. Even with this track record, while I won't buy another new Taurus I do not ever say they are all junk. I've actually had 2 of their 1911s and 2 of their PT92s and while I didn't end up keeping them - they were decent reliable guns.

Sharing first-hand experience is something I think all of our members value - spreading a story you heard from your sisters uncles baby cousin Tracy - not so much. When I see an unfounded statement - yup, I'll question it every time. When stalkingbear or masterPsmith tells me I'm full of it, I'll gracefully admit I'm wrong.

Many newbies come here to learn and we owe it to them to share facts and try to give the best advice we can. Just my 2 cents, YMMV...

masterPsmith 10-08-2009 01:59 PM

Very well said.....Unfounded rumors can kill a company or product, they spread like wildfire.....

Jim.......................

stalkingbear 10-08-2009 02:26 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with you. Naturally when I set up/build a 1911 I use forged/machined parts but have not seen over a couple mim parts fail-and then it was after many thousands of firings. It all depends on how much stress the part is subjected to but I have seen some brittle parts breakage-of BOTH kinds of manufacturing methods.

cpttango30 10-08-2009 02:47 PM

I am sure Forged parts fail too. I have never seen anything that would call me to question MIM parts.

Dillinger 10-08-2009 03:53 PM

MIM or not -

So here's the deal. This has been a topic for awhile. Not just on line, but in gun shops and get togethers.

I had always heard "No MIM parts" but never knew why. So when I started working in the shop, I asked.

Brett took a MIM part that he had taken out of a pistol and put it in the mill and took a swipe thru it, taking off a few hundred thou and then we pulled it and looked at it under a smith's lense and a light.

You could see where the metal had small pockets, not very big at all and hardly anything you could stick a pencil in, but it was not one solid piece of metal from end to end.

Now, I imagine if you magnify any piece of anything, you will see the same thing, I am not a metallurgist - nor do I play one on TV, but this was just an average smith lense that you use when working on small parts. We aren't talking great magnification here.

For me, that was enough for me not to want MIM parts in anything I was going to be betting my life and well being on.

As I have said, in a weapon that is just for target practice, or a weapon that will never see a life defense situation, using MIM parts to keep the price down is a great idea.

For my personal safety, I choose not to have a weapon with MIM parts - be it a sidearm, a boltgun or my AR's.

Just my $0.02

YMMV

NGIB 10-08-2009 04:03 PM

I don't disagree with you JD as I indicated in my OP. Now, lets say you want to buy a new .22 DA revolver for range plinking. As far as I know, there are 3 brands available on the market:

S&W
Taurus
Charter Arms

If you're a newbie and had read that MIM=Bad, Taurus=Bad, and Charter=Bad; guess what - there's no new gun you can buy. My problem is the sweeping statements folks make with no data to back them up. Once one of these "truths" start, it'll be "gospel" within days.

I'm still waiting to see any documented evidence of an MIM hammer or trigger from a S&W revolver failing...

Dillinger 10-08-2009 04:09 PM

And I would agree with you. One of the things with this board, as opposed to some others, is that we have real world experience here and we also have some folks that have been willing to educate new members on what is and what is not.

As for companies - Take a look at our own board and search Kimber lately. :rolleyes:

Taurus got themselves a bad reputation for putting out some junk, but that was years ago.

in 2002, I believe, they went through and redid their production facility with state of the art CNC machines and have been turning out some very good guns, my opinion, sense then. They are rebuilding their reputation - as all manufacturers seem to have to do at some point because they let the dollars rule the roost.

MIM parts, in a plinker, are fine. If you shoot 500 rounds a year, they are fine for you. If you shoot 10,000 - they are probably still fine for you.

I am sure Brett has some failed parts, but I can't think of a single one off the top of my head that came in broken, was stripped down and found to be "Part X". I will ask him though and see if I can get a couple of hi res photos if he has them. He's been doing it for so long, I am sure he has something somewhere....

JD

cpttango30 10-08-2009 04:47 PM

Ok since we are on the MIM topic. What the hell parts are MIM in my kimber?

I might need to look at doing some upgrayds on her in the future.

Dillinger 10-08-2009 04:49 PM

What model you got Tango??

Usually the hammer & slide release, sometimes the safety. I don't believe so, but I am not sure about the MSH - I can't remember ever changing one out for that specific purpose....Can't remember ever changing one out to be honest, I don't think I ever have.....:eek:

NGIB 10-08-2009 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 171528)
What model you got Tango??

Usually the hammer & slide release, sometimes the safety.

Of these three, the only one I see as necessary to swap is the slide release. It takes a beating for every round fired and if there's any flaw it could break - rendering the gun useless. I've seen slide releases and safties break, never a hammer though...


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