Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > General Handgun Discussion > U.S. LE using 40 s&w

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-26-2013, 10:57 PM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jjones45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 518
Liked 110 Times on 82 Posts

Default U.S. LE using 40 s&w

Most of the worlds law enforcement and military use 9mm handguns as their sidearms. Why is it that U.S. LE is dominated so much by the 40 cal.? Do we have tougher criminals that need more powerful rounds to bring down or drug addicts that can take rounds to the body like tony montana before they fall? I personally trust anything 9mm and bigger but was just wondering why the world trust 9mm and the U.S. Doesn't.

__________________
jjones45 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 12-26-2013, 11:10 PM   #2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
SSGN_Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,109
Liked 1963 Times on 1164 Posts
Likes Given: 423

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjones45 View Post
Most of the worlds law enforcement and military use 9mm handguns as their sidearms. Why is it that U.S. LE is dominated so much by the 40 cal.? Do we have tougher criminals that need more powerful rounds to bring down or drug addicts that can take rounds to the body like tony montana before they fall? I personally trust anything 9mm and bigger but was just wondering why the world trust 9mm and the U.S. Doesn't.
We have a gun culture that the rest of the world doesn't have. the .40 was also pretty much developed to be maketed toward LE agencies. So gun manufacturers and ammo manufacturers helped push the caliber out there. Smith and Wesson was the pedominant LE gun supplier in the US at the time the .40 S&W was coming out. thye helped develop the round, they made platforms chambered in it. In order to get thier investment back, they pushed it along with the guns and the technical support to the agencies.

This also followed a lot of research by the FBI on standards for penetration, barrier penetration, etc. after the Miami shootout, and their subsequent adoption of the 10mm round. Then they found that the guns were big in the grip for a lot of smaller handed agents, and had a bit more power than they even needed. So their "need" for a smaller and reduced power version of the 10mm was helped out by Smith and Wesson. Once the FBI endorsed it, the .40 became the US law enforcement standard.
__________________
SSGN_Doc is offline  
colmustard Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2013, 11:11 PM   #3
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
c3shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Third bunker on the right,Central Virginia
Posts: 16,327
Liked 8393 Times on 3631 Posts
Likes Given: 1294

Default

Because in WW 2, the losers used 9mm.






__________________

What we have heah is.... failure to communicate.

c3shooter is offline  
13
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2013, 11:16 PM   #4
Supporting Member
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Sniper03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,978
Liked 2196 Times on 1097 Posts
Likes Given: 1123

Default

Because it is a proven fact the 40 cal. S&W round has more of an effect in actual shootings regarding trama force on target. And is closer to the effects produced by the 45 ACP round which with new ammunition is an excellent man stopper. Not that the 9mm is an ineffective round becuase great improvements have been made in recent years with quality self defense and duty ammunition it is a much better round. Most European LE are still using FMJ rounds. So it boils down to what a person likes best regarding caliber for the purpose of the weapon. The 9mm is best for competition due to the fact of a rapid recovery and target acquisition. And with the newer ammunition fine for defense. But I have carried both and observed the results. After almost 30 years of LE/ SWAT and trainer I also prefer the 40 over the 9mm for duty issue. Years ago we carried the 357 Mag which was superior rounnd. But unavailable in a semi auto pistol for duty.

03

__________________

The Constitution is not an instrument for the Government to restrain the people. It is an instrument for the people to restrain the Government!
*Patrick Henry

Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."

-- John F. Kennedy

Sniper03 is offline  
no1home Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2013, 11:19 PM   #5
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Mercator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 3,734
Liked 1435 Times on 999 Posts
Likes Given: 720

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjones45 View Post
Most of the worlds law enforcement and military use 9mm handguns as their sidearms. Why is it that U.S. LE is dominated so much by the 40 cal.? Do we have tougher criminals that need more powerful rounds to bring down or drug addicts that can take rounds to the body like tony montana before they fall? I personally trust anything 9mm and bigger but was just wondering why the world trust 9mm and the U.S. Doesn't.
The difference is cultural. American LEO and SD calibers have always been larger than the European counterparts. But there is a rationale. American cops are more in danger of being outgunned, because they deal with a much better armed population.

The 40S&W is a bridge between the higher velocity, smaller size 9mm and the slower, heavier 45ACP. It also allows to place more "stopping power" in a smaller shooter's hand, such as female officers.
__________________
"You can't reason with a flying crowbar"
Mercator is offline  
Warrior1256 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2013, 11:47 PM   #6
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
robocop10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin,Texas, by God!!
Posts: 9,925
Liked 2589 Times on 1361 Posts
Likes Given: 200

Default

And most people in the world live under the poverty line. Should all Americans then live thus?

Seriously, most of the world's LEO's live in strict gun control countries. They are not faced with armed goblins nearly as often. To the Europeans and Asians, a handgun on the hip is more of s symbol of authority than an actual tool.

__________________

In life, strive to take the high road....It offers a better field of fire.
"Robo is right" Fuzzball

robocop10mm is online now  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 12:37 AM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WillWork4Ammo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 262
Liked 128 Times on 69 Posts
Likes Given: 32

Default

Mexico doesn't allow anything larger than .380

__________________
WillWork4Ammo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 12:58 AM   #8
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rochester WI,Rochester WI
Posts: 17,149
Liked 5287 Times on 2757 Posts
Likes Given: 333

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
And most people in the world live under the poverty line. Should all Americans then live thus?

Seriously, most of the world's LEO's live in strict gun control countries. They are not faced with armed goblins nearly as often. To the Europeans and Asians, a handgun on the hip is more of s symbol of authority than an actual tool.
Their lack of gun ownership is also why the rest of the world enjoys extremely high murder rape and robbery rates...

Police outside the usa in most places are I'll equipped to handle the goblins they face. Here we face the realities of violent crime and try and arm our police and most states have ccw to arm our citizenry.

Personally I think the 40sw is a weak sister of 9mm and 45acp. It doesn't have the effectiveness of a 45 while having harsher muzzle flip than the 9mm or 45. Put the 40sw back into its original concept and its a whole other animal.
__________________

"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." — L. Neil Smith

The problem with being stupid is you cannot simply decide to stop doing dumb things...

JonM is offline  
Rocky7 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 02:41 AM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
indy36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 641
Liked 307 Times on 172 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillWork4Ammo
Mexico doesn't allow anything larger than .380
I don't believe that to be true. I thought it was the .38 Super Auto. This is the largest you can legally own in Mexico, which is why the cartels murder so many people with them. It is a 'non-military' round, thus you can own that in Mexico.
__________________
indy36 is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 05:22 AM   #10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
glocknloaded's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 129
Liked 43 Times on 31 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by indy36 View Post
I don't believe that to be true. I thought it was the .38 Super Auto. This is the largest you can legally own in Mexico, which is why the cartels murder so many people with them. It is a 'non-military' round, thus you can own that in Mexico.
Really? I would assume cartels would use what ever they can get. I'm sure most of their weaponry is imported and illegal in Mexico.
__________________
glocknloaded is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes