Truth from a laser salesman? Or just trying to sell a laser? - Page 2
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
Ferg - Can you tell us where on the clock your groups are at?

7 O'clock?

8 O'clock?

Combination?

Because you might have two problems going against you. Shooting the same weapon off a rest as NGIB stated would be a great start. Do you have another experienced shooter who can go to the range with you?

Hey JD,

here is an approximation on what happened consistently that day. I dont know of too many experienced shooters in Lexington. My brother shoots, but has been at it less than i have (i gave him his first gun not too long ago). Never been shooting with him, so i dont know how good he is. But i will go with him just to see if we are getting similar results.

This is the first time i have ever had an issue with a sight. In the past my groupings were never consistent when i had a problem, which pointed to me being the culprit. But like i said, i have taken some time off from consistent practice. But then again, the week before i went with a more familiar gun, and was happy with what i accomplished (considering that i was a bit rusty).

But to answer your question it was closer to 7 O' Clock. The image below will display differently on different monitors (some will squash the picture shorter, and some may show it a bit wider than what i originally made. But it should be showing about 7 O clock. It was down more than it was to the left.
low-left.jpg  
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:28 PM   #12
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Well, you are right in that threshold between the two possibilities. Do you own any snap caps? Or can you have your shooting buddy load a mag for you with a dummy round or expended shell in it that you don't know is there?

When that "shell" chambers and you pull the trigger and nothing happens, your buddy will be watching based on round count and will be able to much better see if there is something that you are doing that is evident.

Being that far left and that far low has me perplexed to be honest. That is a pretty big difference.

You don't shoot across the gun or anything right? Left eye dominant but holding right handed or vice versa?

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Old 12-08-2010, 08:18 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by theferg2000 View Post
Being that i am no expert by any means, and want to get better if i am screwing up, i thought i would get some more neutral opinions here. Am i right here? Is it likely that someone could be anticipating and CONSISTENTLY (and i mean not one shot out of the group off for several clips) group well?

If you are anticipating wouldn't the grouping be all over the place? I left him with joking that i did not think i could anticipate that consistently.
to fix this and figure it out by yourself get some dummy rounds like snap caps and replace one bullet in the cylinder or magazine at random. when it goes click instead of boom it will give instant feedback to what is occuring.

a laser will only reinforce a bad habit.
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:34 PM   #14
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You don't shoot across the gun or anything right? Left eye dominant but holding right handed or vice verse?
No sir. I was shooting in the Weaver Stance, and i am right handed if that helps.

The distance is why i was concerned too. I mean at 7 yards, either i am REALLY doing something wrong, or the site/gun is really off. If i would have put all the shots on the head i would not have bothered to post about it (beings that i am rusty - it had been a week since i had shot, but about 6 months before that).

I know i am no expert, but i am a fairly good shot. I learned to correct my issues, pretty quickly when i first started, but i did not have the knowledge base in here at my disposal then.

Several years ago when i was first learning (it was the first time shooting a hand gun besides when my dad thought it would be funny to let a small boy shoot a 357 magnum in front of his friends), i even had anticipation (where i would tilt the gun down trying to account for the force) that was lower than that chart, BUT it was also all over the place. But like i said, every group was consistently off that much. I know i am rusty, but after seeing this i really focused on the techniques that helped me in the past for anticipation,and other problems, counting out step by step all the things that had become natural to me.

I will take it out within a couple of days and try again, taking my brother with me, and go over everyone's suggestions. I appreciate all the help. This gun is very slim, so it maybe that i am gripping it wrong, or something. I will try to take photo of the target after wards if i am still having issues.
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:07 PM   #15
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The problem that has me perplexed is that if you are slapping the trigger ( jerking it ) then your groups shouldn't be that consistant, even at 7 yards.

Granted 21 feet isn't far for a bullet to travel, but to be in the same pattern time and again, in the same location, means you are either the most consistant trigger slapper I have seen, or there is something else in play here.

Does the range offer a pistol instructor?

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Old 12-09-2010, 02:38 AM   #16
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The problem that has me perplexed is that if you are slapping the trigger ( jerking it ) then your groups shouldn't be that consistant, even at 7 yards.

Granted 21 feet isn't far for a bullet to travel, but to be in the same pattern time and again, in the same location, means you are either the most consistant trigger slapper I have seen, or there is something else in play here.

Does the range offer a pistol instructor?
I am not sure, I have only been to this location twice now, but it is a VERY nice range in my opinion, so i would bet they do. I was thinking the same thing for the consistency. I would think that if i was doing something wrong (other than maybe a grip, or stance, or eying it wrong) then i would have a poor grouping. Plus to be off that much, it seemed strange even for me! BUT I WILL clear it all up. I got to thinking about it more, and i know some of the guys that work there pretty well, so i will at least get one of them, or maybe even the range guy to take a few shoots. Should he be right on the mark, i will immediately leave the range and sign up for a beginners course again, and make up a great tale for you guys .
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:05 AM   #17
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Low and left with a right handed shooter can be a drop for anticipation but can also be not enough finger on the trigger and can be pushing it a little. I had to look that pistol up beng I don't have a lot of first hand info on that particular model. It's a short barreled .40 so the recoil is pretty crisp. I got to asking around and have found that the triggers are a lot like the Millennium models. I have had one of those in that caliber. And it also shot a little low but I was shooting at around 20 yards. What got me thinking is the triggers are such that finger position on the trigger will do a lot. They swing left/right) a little in their travel so you can push or pull a trigger and have your finger where you do on a similar weapon and it not be as right as it could be. JD's idea with a snap cap or dead case could see it or maybe using a point and dry fire and watching the movement when the trigger breaks. The not knowing might show you more of what you need to know truth be told. The mil-Pro 40 I had did shoot a little low though and the two are pretty similar.

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Old 12-09-2010, 04:24 AM   #18
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After reading this I am going to say sights. If you are only doing it with this gun and none others then your not slappin the trigger.

As for Tarus sights I don't think anyone checks them at the factory. A buddy wanted me to test his new Tarus SS 92 knock off 9mm that thing at 10 yards was 2' low No that is not a typo 2' as in 2 feet or two feet low. I blew the bottom rail of my target off aiming at the top one. he swore up and down it was me. Till I pulled out my kimber and shot 8 in the 10 ring then took his 1911 and put 8 in the ten ring. Then took my Neos and put 10 in the 10 ring with the week hand.

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Old 12-09-2010, 07:33 AM   #19
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I'm also gonna say that if you are shooting that consistently "off-target" with that one gun and you're shooting just fine with other similar guns/triggers/sights, then you gotta blame the sights.

Any bad habit I've ever had in my shooting life has traveled from gun to gun. That is one of the (if not THE) reason I like to set up a .22 in a matching configuration for many of my other "business" firearms.

As far as your original question about a laser. . . I strongly believe that you should be proficient with the irons every firearms you own, especially one that is to be used for personal/home defense. A laser is great to add as a night time aid to give you a speed/sight advantage. However, your iron sights never run out of batteries or become damaged from a drop.

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Old 12-09-2010, 02:42 PM   #20
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You might try this...

SCP-240 - Sightmark .40 Chamber Bore Sight Quick and Easy Way To Check and Verify Zero

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