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Old 04-14-2012, 04:09 AM   #21
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Just a twist on the scenario, , if the bg shot the clerk in front of you, do you still shoot bg even after the fact?

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Old 04-14-2012, 04:12 AM   #22
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Just a twist on the scenario, , if the bg shot the clerk in front of you, do you still shoot bg even after the fact?
Only if he is swinging the gun toward me. Remember, Someone goes on a rampage and shoots fifty people, but doesn't point the gun at you and you drop them? You're going to be spending a snot load of money on a lawyer, and only way I'm doing that is if I have no choice because he's starting my way and doesn't put the firearm down.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:04 AM   #23
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Before you belabor this question too much further: Perhaps you should go to the range and shoot a BG/hostage target at seven yards.
When you can draw from cover,and present,shoot past the hostage and hit the BG between the lower lip and the bridge of the nose in a pattern not more than an inch and a half wide,a thousand times or more without once hitting the hostage;then you're probably ready to answer this question for yourself.
Don't forget that the BG gets to use the hostage for cover and he knows that if you haven't pulled the trigger as soon as you aquired your sights,you brandished your weapon without clear intent and now you have made yourself his defacto second hostage.Hostage rescue operators
are very careful with this shot scenario even with a sighted rifle.Even the Israeli Mosaad used target tuned,target sighted six inch revolvers for airplane/airport hostage rescue training,and their arguably among the best in the world at this game.
You also forgot to tell us if there is a way to verify that the perp doesn't have an accomplice with a gun already aimed at your head.Sounds like an awfully good time to find cover and be a good witness.

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Old 04-14-2012, 11:37 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by BenLuby

Only if he is swinging the gun toward me. Remember, Someone goes on a rampage and shoots fifty people, but doesn't point the gun at you and you drop them? You're going to be spending a snot load of money on a lawyer, and only way I'm doing that is if I have no choice because he's starting my way and doesn't put the firearm down.
I'd say that if he shot the clerk you have justifiable reason to believe that your life was in danger.

But I wonder what would happen if you shot him in the back? Legally of course.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:51 AM   #25
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The reason I ask is, my father was a LEO for 35yrs. I presented this question to him and he told me to smoke him. He also informed me that I (can) use deadly force if my life or another life is on the line. I am on the fence on this one. Yes, I could shoot him to protect the life of the clerk, but on the other hand like orangello stated, the legal portion of it. And also having that on my conciense too. Not a big fan of the prison system!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry if I offend you, but your father is a dinosaur. He is living in a primordial era when bad guys got shot and officers/civilians got medals for it. This is 2012 and the answer is no where near that simple, unless you really like being jailed and spending your life savings on a lawyer to defend you in both criminal and civil proceedings.

CAN you shoot? Sure. Should you shoot? Maybe. You will be rolling the dice with your life and your savings. Even if the DA elects to not prosecute you, you WILL be sued by the little darlings family. The Castle doctrine will not help you in a public place like this. Even if you win the law suit, you will be $10,000 in the hole.

Remember there are so many variables at play here that Murphy's odds say you will roll craps more often than not.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:08 PM   #26
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It would seem that if the clerk was shot you would have a good case for reacting in fear of emminente danger.I believe you can also react to prevent furtherance of an ongoing violent felony. (based on your belief that the perpetrator might venture forth and represent a clear and present danger to the community in the continuance of their crime)
Under these circumstances it is unlikely that you would have to issue a challenge or place yourself in HARMS WAY to take a reasonable action to stop the threat.

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Old 04-14-2012, 03:10 PM   #27
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Does anyone wonder how many times Zimmerman ran through scenario's like that in his mind? Seriously? Not to be insulting, but I'm not a cop. It's not my job to do their job, and I'm not doing anything I view as stupid unless I am 100% sure someone is getting shot, and that is it. They want the money? Have at it. I ain't getting involved in that.
The legal ramifications are just way too ugly to consider. Using my sidearm is a last resort. Not something I intend to do lightly.
Yep, once that trigger is pulled you can't get the bullet back.
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:09 PM   #28
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I have had my Glock 23 for 4 months now and have shot it twice a week, Over 1,500 rounds though it and has shot every time. I can knock out the center of a paper target at 10 yards with careful aiming. I can hit the 8" target almost every time practicing my fast draw with double taps. I wear a out side the waist band high hip holster at about 5 oc and it conceals great on me. I practice my fast draw almost daily and have become quiet good. I have confidence in my self in a self defense situation.

With all that said "what would I do" hell sorry but I would be out the front door or back door or what ever door I can get to, Reaching for my phone to call for help not my gun. I may end up dead by doing all that but I can tell you that is what I would do. I am not a cop or a hero.

If my family was there with me different story, If the shot is a clear one, The threat would be eliminated in a split second from instinct of protecting my loved ones flowing though my blood. I may get sued $10,000 - ???? may be life in prison who knows but my family is still alive..... PRICELESS..... and that's for real!

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Old 04-14-2012, 04:40 PM   #29
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I have had my Glock 23 for 4 months now and have shot it twice a week, Over 1,500 rounds though it and has shot every time. I can knock out the center of a paper target at 10 yards with careful aiming. I can hit the 8" target almost every time practicing my fast draw with double taps. I wear a out side the waist band high hip holster at about 5 oc and it conceals great on me. I practice my fast draw almost daily and have become quiet good. I have confidence in my self in a self defense situation.

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With all that said "what would I do" hell sorry but I would be out the front door or back door or what ever door I can get to, Reaching for my phone to call for help not my gun. I may end up dead by doing all that but I can tell you that is what I would do. I am not a cop or a hero.

If my family was there with me different story, If the shot is a clear one, The threat would be eliminated in a split second from instinct of protecting my loved ones flowing though my blood. I may get sued $10,000 - ???? may be life in prison who knows but my family is still alive..... PRICELESS..... and that's for real!
Thats about the most honest & reasonable remark i've seen to this "why the hell ask thread" -
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:42 PM   #30
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Most bg robbing a store want in and out, why risk getting someone killed over a few bucks.

Drawing and shooting should be an extreme last resort.

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