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Old 04-13-2012, 12:48 AM   #11
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I think I was close to seeing a situation like this happen once. I was with a friend when we stopped for coffee at a convenience store early one morning on our way to hunting. We had rifles in the truck and loaded handguns. We saw these two ragged-looking guys go in the store. One of them stood near the counter while the other one walked in a different direction and stopped. He started looking around nervously while just standing there. They both kept their hands in their coat pockets. My friend and I saw this happening and we had the feeling these guys were up to no good. We made note of the license plate number of the car these guys were driving. We just sat there for a short while then decided to go inside. This is when the two guys inside suddenly walked out the door and left. The clerk told us she was glad we arrived because she thought the two guys were there to rob her. We gave her the license plate number of their car. She said she would call the police. These days there are a lot of armed robberies because the meth freaks have to support their habit.

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Old 04-13-2012, 12:51 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Sniper03 View Post
...First of all an officer would not have seemingly charged or walked in the with a drawn weapon without a present threat. Agency policy also requires an officer to identify himself verbally if a weapon is drawn in a situation as mentioned and to have his or her badge in plain view, or be holding their Police Badge and ID out with the weapon. As stated he would give verbal Identification. He or she would likely not have the gun held to the head of the clerk either. We just do not do that it is generally center mass. If it was an Officer and he saw you he would also ID himself and give you instructions!
Yes, if everything went "by the book". Sometimes things don't. I was just presenting the "really bad case" scenario of the guy with the gun being an LEO pointing a gun at a robber who was pointing a gun at an unseen clerk. VERY unlikely situation, but possible with Murphy on the books. Heat of the moment, new LEO, LEO with the flu, LEO's sister is the clerk, etc. Having been cuffed-up a few times, it is a stressful situation with a great potential for errors.

Stuff like this is why i am fairly happy with just "car carry" (as allowed in MS). I am not a LEO; my firearm on the seat is for preservation of my life and optional preservation of the life of another in reeeeeally imminent danger. I know how that sounds, but i have made enough mistakes to know which ones i could live with and which ones, with their consequences, i could not live with. I could get over seeing a stranger killed in a robbery and not stopping it, but i couldn't get over trying to stop that situation, or perceived situation, and mucking it up possibly getting the clerk and myself killed.

I guess a stranger's life isn't worth as much to me as the potential for my own loss in the event of an error on my part. If it makes it easier to swallow, i wouldn't expect anyone (uniformed or not) to jump in the frying pan with me in such a situation (were i the clerk).
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:17 PM   #13
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well if BG already has weapon drawn, your in a bad position....odds of drawing from concealment and getting on target before you get shot is slim, at best!

So me, i would look for an opportunity to present itself. bout all you can logically do.
For some reason the scenario as described gave me a mental picture of the BG entering, going straight to the clerk, putting the gun to his head and focusing there. My mental picture had me in the store but the BG is at least ignoring me. I agree that drawing from concealed carry in full view of the BG is very unlikely to succeed. In full view, I'd probably just be wetting my pants.

Hopefully spending time thinking about this kind of situation (like we are here) will enable a better set of decisions. If BG is focused on the clerk (gun to his head), it may be possible to get behind some cover and draw from there. Gun first, then cell phone if possible. 911. Then start thinking very fast.

One of many possibilities: Put cell phone on the counter (so 911 can hear better.) Move away from the cell phone (when 911 starts talking it will distract BG). If I can get in position for a shot, my choice would be to give BG the option to drop it NOW. Not a big fan of 2nd and 3rd chances, repeated warnings, negotiations. NOW means NOW to me.

Of course, it took 10 minutes to think through and type out all this. Probably won't have 10 seconds to figure it out in real life. At the end of the day, you do what you have to do. If that's stand there and hope for the best, then that's what you do. I know what I hope I'll be able to do, but I won't know what I'll actually do until (if) it happens.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:42 PM   #14
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Hoss Fly that is the best post I have read in some time. I am also tired of the "Wyatt Earp" complex. Gees my dad said I could kill them. Really? Damn even Wyatt Earp was arrested after the shooting at the OK corral.

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Old 04-13-2012, 01:54 PM   #15
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Does anyone wonder how many times Zimmerman ran through scenario's like that in his mind? Seriously? Not to be insulting, but I'm not a cop. It's not my job to do their job, and I'm not doing anything I view as stupid unless I am 100% sure someone is getting shot, and that is it. They want the money? Have at it. I ain't getting involved in that.
The legal ramifications are just way too ugly to consider. Using my sidearm is a last resort. Not something I intend to do lightly.

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Old 04-13-2012, 03:54 PM   #16
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I'm not sitting here saying what I'd do!!!!! I'm just wondering what others would do. And ONLY because my dad (retired LEO) says to "smoke em" doesn't mean that everything he says is the right thing. Maybe because he (was) a LEO, would give him almost every right to do that. But being a conceal carry, I probably wouldn't take that chance and the risk of losing my freedom. Now if BG had his gun on me, then yes I would "smoke em" given every chance!!!

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Old 04-13-2012, 04:00 PM   #17
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IF I happen to be in the store, carrying, when 1 BG accosts the clerk,

(not likely) at

the front counter, I would be inclined to intervene.

These guys always seem to get involved in getting themselves

killed, doing stupid sh**, on the very same day they started

turning their lives around. I mean, they could have been

"turning their lives around" by studying a new job skill at the library,

moving to Indiana, or helping a relative bathe their Collie. But

robbing a convenience store is what they apparently feel

will "turn their life around" for them.

IF the BG had his attention turned on the clerk, I would

get a bead, then approach, and attempt to knock him out

while his attention was diverted. HPs are expensive.

Then I would have to pray this paragon of virtue didn't have

a weeping mother to slobber all over a democratic judge at any

hearings on the matter.

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Old 04-13-2012, 04:13 PM   #18
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I would pay cash for my smokes and leave quickly.

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Old 04-13-2012, 04:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenLuby View Post
Does anyone wonder how many times Zimmerman ran through scenario's like that in his mind? Seriously? Not to be insulting, but I'm not a cop. It's not my job to do their job, and I'm not doing anything I view as stupid unless I am 100% sure someone is getting shot, and that is it. They want the money? Have at it. I ain't getting involved in that.
The legal ramifications are just way too ugly to consider. Using my sidearm is a last resort. Not something I intend to do lightly.
Exactly!

I couldn't agree more.
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Old 04-13-2012, 05:32 PM   #20
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Assuming I can't get to the exit. I am gonna get to cover, hopefully out of sight. Pull my Glock out and use my cell to call the police. To clarify, my Glock will be out for my self defense, not to play Wyatt Earp.

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