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Old 02-01-2011, 01:42 AM   #11
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I guess I don't understand this fascination with +++P+++P+++ ammo. If I need more punch than 9mm, I'll just move up in caliber rather than wonder if my gun will take it.
Not everyone has a revolving door on their safe Dave.

Just sayin'.....

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Old 02-01-2011, 02:19 AM   #12
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A +P round from a 9mm, placed fairly well on target, should produce enough of the desired effect. The need for +P+ seems far less than a reliable, proven SD +P round on target.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:22 AM   #13
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Hello, Eric0424. The following Winchester Ranger 127-gr. +P+ (RA9TA)muzzle velocities (ft/sec) are based on 10 shots fired 10' from the chronograph screens.

Browning Mk III Hi Power: 1269

Glock 17: 1288

Glock 26: 1246

Springfield Armory XD: 1257

CZ-75 Pre-B: 1285

Taurus PT-92: 1292

FNP9: 1248

STI Trojan 6" Long Slide: 1296

I have found this load to be accurate and reliable in all of the pistols through which it has been chronographed as well as a Beretta PX4.


Here are some expanded Winchester 127-gr. JHP's. All were fired from a Browning Hi Power. The one on the left was fired into newsprint that had been soaked for 24 hours and then drained 30 minutes before shooting. The one in the middle was used to cleanly (and legally) kill a Texas whitetail deer when I was taking part in a state-sanctioned management program. It grazed the heart from approximately 10 to 12 yards (and I passed on a lot more shots than I took.) The deer dropped like a rock at the shot, kicked for a few seconds and died. The bullet on the right was fired into water. The 127-gr. RA9TA load is reported to be a very consistent performer and in my own informal, statistically-invalid, and "anecdotal" observations, it is.

I have noticed no really obvious extreme pressure signs using this ammunition; no more than say, Speer 124-gr. GDHP +P's or similar loads. Having said that, I would not use +P+ ammunition other than from the known reputable manufacturers, since there is no SAAMI pressure-rating for it.

Though not a round I fired each and every trip to the range, I've fired quite a bit of it over the past several years, usually in Hi Powers (using 18.5-lb recoil springs) or Glocks. I think it is probably one of the top performing 9mm loads, but there appear to be very good SAAMI-rated +P loads, one of which would be Speer 124-gr. GDHP +P. I believe NYPD issues this load and that the NY Transit Police use the standard pressure version.

In my opinion, there are loads that perform nicely in 9mm in standard pressure, +P and +P+ and any of them will probably do the trick with decent placement. If a person has concerns over using +P or +P+ ammunition, I honestly do not think that much (if anything) is being given up with some standard pressure loads. I say "some" because I just don't have information or personal observations with all of them. In my opinion, placement is power and perhaps IF a standard pressure JHP gives up some power, it allows for more rapid follow-up shots? Just a thought, and perhaps one that is true for some folks, but not others.

Speaking only for myself, in the 124-gr. area, I'd trust Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points or Remington's Golden Sabers. I believe that Winchester has come out with a LE 124-gr. +P load now, but I've not tried it.

I have used Winchester's 127-gr. +P+ and Federal's 115-gr. +P+ loads with no problems, but these are the only +P+ factory rounds I've tried.


Best and good shooting.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:28 AM   #14
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Winchester Ranger 127 +P+ is perhaps the nastiest (in a good way) factory 9mm round out there. But it's not practical for all occasions or all guns. I have a couple boxes of it and also have three 9mms...only one of them gets to eat this stuff.

I keep them loaded in my CZ 75b. But it's a heavy, full-framed service pistol designed to handle tens of thousands of rounds in its lifetime. It'll handle those +P+ zombie loads just fine.

A good 124gr +P is a more than adequate defense round and generally better for carry.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:19 AM   #15
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Byrd - You have paperwork on that? This has been debated a couple of times and +P is a definite from Father Gaston, but +P+ has been back and forth a couple of times.

Anything definite??
No sir nothing definitive. But here is what I can find.

Glock's are rated for NATO spec ammunition. As I understand it those who propose that +p+ is ok in your Glock point to the fact that they are designed to eat NATO ammunition.

I cant say this is a definitive answer but I wouldn't think that a major (or self respecting) manufacturer is going to make a load so hot that it would disintegrate a Glock.

Has anyone ever tried calling Glock to find out 100%?
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:49 PM   #16
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No sir nothing definitive. But here is what I can find.

Glock's are rated for NATO spec ammunition. As I understand it those who propose that +p+ is ok in your Glock point to the fact that they are designed to eat NATO ammunition.

I cant say this is a definitive answer but I wouldn't think that a major (or self respecting) manufacturer is going to make a load so hot that it would disintegrate a Glock.

Has anyone ever tried calling Glock to find out 100%?
That is the thing. With +P+ there is no SAAMI spec, so it doesn't adhere to any preset "rating" system. That is why so few gun makers state it's okay to shoot in their weapon. It's gone back and forth a few times on the board, that was why I was wondering.

Looks like I'll play Corky Duke and call the US Glock folks today and see what I can find out from one of their reps.

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Old 02-01-2011, 02:49 PM   #17
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SACamp - Excellent Post! *thumbs up*

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Old 02-01-2011, 07:14 PM   #18
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I recently shot 150 rounds of winchester ranger 127 gr +p+ that my FBI buddy brought from work on our last range trip and they shot through my new XD 9mm Service model fine. I think as long as you have a good pistol it will be fine, especially since you have the civilian rounds, idk if there is a difference, but the ones I shot said not for civilian use in red letters on the box and had a warning about higher chamber pressures. I think they will work fine for you.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:52 PM   #19
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Looks like I'll play Corky Duke and call the US Glock folks today and see what I can find out from one of their reps.

JD
http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f56/glock-p-p-ammo-what-does-glock-say-37755/
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:42 AM   #20
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SACamp - Excellent Post! *thumbs up*

JD

Agreed, thanks SACamp. For some reason I had trouble getting the specs.
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