Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > General Handgun Discussion > Private Sales of Firearm, sans FFL

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2012, 07:37 PM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BeyondTheBox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,604
Liked 284 Times on 246 Posts

Default

What's your guys' take on this?

I've recently read opinions and statutes on private sales out of state, however I've both given and sold some of my handguns to friends and family (in state) without any official transfer paperwork.

I'm just wondering if I've missed some possible legalities. I understand that, as far as the law is concerned, until I do so, the firearms are still considered mine. But I'll be honest, I'm not worried about any consequences from one being stolen and used in a crime. My friends and fam are responsible parties whom would absolutely file a report if lost/stolen, let alone there'd be nothing to convict on, with lack of motive and full alibi, I'm very confident there. So unless you can shed more insight there I'm assuming I'm good. If there's a flaw in my theory I'm open to ideas.

__________________

Last edited by BeyondTheBox; 10-02-2012 at 08:07 PM.
BeyondTheBox is online now  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 10-02-2012, 07:49 PM   #2
Retired
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
danf_fl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LA (Lower Alabama),FL
Posts: 10,060
Liked 2655 Times on 1548 Posts
Likes Given: 1178

Default

Transferring firearms between my siblings and I (they are residents of Wisconsin, I am of Florida), I've followed the guidelines and have gone through FFL's.

There are provisions in the GCA for some exceptions.

2. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to a friend who resides in a different State?
Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov and http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exception from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. Thus, for example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent. See 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5).
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf

__________________

Amendment II:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Life Member NRA
Life Member NAHC
Former President of the ECPT (Eifel Combat Pistol Team)

danf_fl is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 07:49 PM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
bearrwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 599
Liked 53 Times on 46 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Well there is the fact you just mentioned it on a public forum that is watched by gov agency.

__________________

Keep up with the trends, avoid the fads, take your time and do work you can be proud of always

bearrwe is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 07:50 PM   #4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mdauben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 441
Liked 97 Times on 68 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

You might check your state laws but there is no federal requirement for paperwork or records on private party to private party transfers within the same state.

If you are transferring to a private party in a different state federal law is you must go through an FFL even if its a friend or relative.

__________________
mdauben is offline  
USEBOTHHANDS Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 07:52 PM   #5
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,170
Liked 5731 Times on 3358 Posts
Likes Given: 4877

Default

I am a big fan of buying from a non-FFL and avoiding federal forms. I, thus far, have avoided buying from people with questionable methods of obtaining inventory.


Alibi-wise, could you prove where you were Sunday night from 11PM until 3AM Monday morning? I mean, beyond a statement from your spouse.



edit* D'oh, didn't see "in another state".

__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.

orangello is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 08:03 PM   #6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
USEBOTHHANDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ferriday,LA
Posts: 1,332
Liked 650 Times on 368 Posts
Likes Given: 5125

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdauben View Post
You might check your state laws but there is no federal requirement for paperwork or records on private party to private party transfers within the same state.

If you are transferring to a private party in a different state federal law is you must go through an FFL even if its a friend or relative.

across state lines is an IMMEDIATE "INTERstate commerce" transaction and falls under federal government guidelines......sales or transfers must be made to an FFL within the state of the transferee and a form 4473 has to be completed.
__________________

"they may get me in a rush, but not before i turn your head into a canoe....." -Kurt Russell (Wyatt Earp) in Tombstone

"if it was up to me, i'd like to see, this country run,
the way it used to be, the way it oughta be, just like it's done, OUT HERE.........WAY OUT HERE." -Josh Thompson, country music singer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0sYnro_3Rc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3R00rlA0S0&NR=1

PEOPLE TEND TO ACT LIKE SHEEP, BOY I LOVE MUTTON! -Me

USEBOTHHANDS is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 08:08 PM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BeyondTheBox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,604
Liked 284 Times on 246 Posts

Default

Sorry, I forgot to mention my friends and family are in state. That's why I said "however", just forgot to state it. Hahaha

My bad.

__________________
BeyondTheBox is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 08:24 PM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BeyondTheBox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,604
Liked 284 Times on 246 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangello
I am a big fan of buying from a non-FFL and avoiding federal forms. I, thus far, have avoided buying from people with questionable methods of obtaining inventory.

Alibi-wise, could you prove where you were Sunday night from 11PM until 3AM Monday morning? I mean, beyond a statement from your spouse.
I agree, avoidance of those pesky charges for using a card (delaer buy on broker site) or waiting for money orders to be delivered and shipping time is always good. Nothing better than immediate satisfaction.

You do bring up a good point, though some Sunday nights yes, I could. Without motive I wouldn't really need it, but I'm sure it would never get to that point.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to get a signed receipt on each sale. I keep records of the guns and their serial numbers electronically (pictures of), but a signed copy of purchase/sale might be good backup. Or just ask them to go to an FFL and do it all official like. I just don't like asking anything of people, ever.

Before ever purchasing a handgun I asked both my local FFL dealer and police department, both said, in the state of Oregon there's really only one official way to do so, otherwise it's perfectly legal to sell privately. But I'm now wondering how competent an answer that really is. What if I had a friend with a felony on their record I knew nothing of? Instances like that are what I'm mostly curious about.
__________________
BeyondTheBox is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 08:29 PM   #9
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,170
Liked 5731 Times on 3358 Posts
Likes Given: 4877

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondTheBox View Post
Perhaps it would be a good idea to get a signed receipt on each sale. I keep records of the guns and their serial numbers electronically (pictures of), but a signed copy of purchase/sale might be good backup. Or just ask them to go to an FFL and do it all official like. I just don't like asking anything of people, ever.


What if I had a friend with a felony on their record I knew nothing of? Instances like that are what I'm mostly curious about.
I would prefer not to do any paperwork not required by law, but if the deal was good enough, a bill of sale wouldn't be unreasonable. When i bought my SKS from an individual, he did ask to see my driver's license to verify i was from an in-state address.

I doubt anyone could absolutely PROVE that you knew or didn't know your buddy had a felony (unless you were present or a co-defendant or something). I do think they could probably make a case on you if the buyer was wearing a "I love maple syrup" Tshirt and speaking mostly french and complaining of the heat and talking about last year's seal clubbing trip and such.
__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.

orangello is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 08:39 PM   #10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BeyondTheBox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,604
Liked 284 Times on 246 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangello

I would prefer not to do any paperwork not required by law, but if the deal was good enough, a bill of sale wouldn't be unreasonable. When i bought my SKS from an individual, he did ask to see my driver's license to verify i was from an in-state address.

I doubt anyone could absolutely PROVE that you knew or didn't know your buddy had a felony (unless you were present or a co-defendant or something). I do think they could probably make a case on you if the buyer was wearing a "I love maple syrup" Tshirt and speaking mostly french and complaining of the heat and talking about last year's seal clubbing trip and such.
Hahaha. No, it's quite literally my local and frequently visited friends and family, only the best of. I wasn't stating that I'd read about out of state law because it pertained to me, rather that I'd been reading the post from someone else on here whom was thinking about doing so to that 20y/o and it made me think more about my case where they were in state. Had it been something foreign I would've just chimed in on same thread already started.

I highly doubt my friends and fam were ever felons, with one exception, but it was a purchase for his cute little asian wife whom is definitely no felon. Hahaha

Thanks for the input fellas, puts my mind a little more at ease about the situation.
__________________
BeyondTheBox is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Private sales longunner General Rifle Discussion 4 06-23-2012 02:21 AM
Private Sales? xcoreyyyx Legal and Activism 24 06-11-2012 12:54 AM
The Senate is trying to ban private sales Scratchammo Legal and Activism 20 12-11-2011 04:36 PM
Indiana Private Sales Law Jlinx91b Legal and Activism 19 08-31-2010 07:11 PM



Newest Threads