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Old 10-19-2013, 07:13 AM   #21
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I prefer the Glock because it works but lots of other guns work, too.

If you care about ergonomics at all, the M&P is a better gun than the Glock in the ergonomics department. It costs a tad more, but the difference is marginal. Having the gun fit your hand and being able to reach all the controls with ease is kinda important when people are shooting at you, therefore try several makes and models to see which agrees with your hands the most.

HK USP and variants thereof are good pistols, but the cost is too high for what you get and acquiring spare parts is more difficult than it is for more popular brands.

Either pistol gets the job done and both are available in 9MM, .40S&W, and .45 ACP. Make sure you can afford the ammo. .45 ACP and .357 Magnum ammo is not cheap. Shoot at least 500 rounds of whatever ammo you'll carry or you really don't know how it will perform when you need it the most.

The aluminum and steel frame guns simply don't do anything that the plastic frame pistols don't, but they weigh more and, generally, cost more. There are always exceptions, but generally speaking the more expensive something is to produce the more it costs to own and operate.

The types of 1911's I'd trust my life with aren't what I would call affordable to the general gun buying public but they are available if you have the means.

If you live in a commune that prohibits ownership of modern firearms, then a 1911 or revolver in hand beats a Glock or M&P in the local commissar's holster any day of the week. 1911's and revolvers have been killing people "just as good" as modern technology pistols long before Herr Glock was ever born.

Don't get too wrapped around the axle about safety, reliability, or cleaning. Don't point the pistol at anything you don't intend to shoot, lube your firearm regularly, and you won't have any problems. Clean it after you shoot a few hundred rounds through it and then lube it. You're the safety, the gun is just a tool. The reminder about that point is not pleasant, so don't forget it.

The sidearm you choose is of no consequence in comparison to the level of training and regular practice you have with it. Buying and especially carrying a pistol without more in-depth and broader training than the simple mechanics of hitting a target with a firearm is a major mistake. Learn to use your hands and feet first, then improvised weapons, and finally firearms.

I think that about covers it.

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Old 10-19-2013, 07:18 AM   #22
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Almost forgot, whatever pistol you choose should probably come with or accept aftermarket tritium sights and a SureFire X300. If it doesn't, it's probably not something you want to carry.

On that note, always carry a small flashlight, folding knife, and cell phone with you. They're complementary tools.

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Old 10-19-2013, 03:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by kbd512
Almost forgot, whatever pistol you choose should probably come with or accept aftermarket tritium sights and a SureFire X300. If it doesn't, it's probably not something you want to carry. On that note, always carry a small flashlight, folding knife, and cell phone with you. They're complementary tools.
Why would you carry a pistol with a light on it and also have a flashlight on your body? Seems sort of redundant to me.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:45 PM   #24
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Why would you carry a pistol with a light on it and also have a flashlight on your body? Seems sort of redundant to me.
Tacticool is all about redundancy. But seriously, you don't want to use your weapon light as a flashlight when a flashlight is needed. Batteries do die.
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Old 10-19-2013, 04:20 PM   #25
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Well, I can tell you from experience, if you pull your Glock out of its holster, turn on the TLR, shine the beam on the book in the other persons hand and say "sign the ticket. Press hard. 3 copies." They really don't appreciate that.

It's much better if you do that with a flashlight NOT attached to a firearm.

On the other hand, when clearing a room or engaging a threat at night I like the gun mounted light so I can still have both hands on the weapon.

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Old 10-19-2013, 04:38 PM   #26
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Well, I can tell you from experience, if you pull your Glock out of its holster, turn on the TLR, shine the beam on the book in the other persons hand and say "sign the ticket. Press hard. 3 copies." They really don't appreciate that. It's much better if you do that with a flashlight NOT attached to a firearm. On the other hand, when clearing a room or engaging a threat at night I like the gun mounted light so I can still have both hands on the weapon.
That's sound reasoning, and I as a civilian will never have to be in that situation.

So I ask again, why do I, as a civilian, need a flashlight on my body when there is already one on my gun? Don't say because of car troubles. I could just keep the flashlight in the car and not have as much weight on my body.

Personally, I don't own a single gun light anyway. I understand the arguments for them, but I just choose to spend my hard earned money on other things (such as reloading supplies to shoot more, or food for my son, or diapers for my daughter, or gas for my car, or date nights occasionally with my wife).

I don't have a CC permit in this communist state, so I don't carry anyway. I keep a couple loaded guns in a gun safe in my bedroom, and a shotgun in the closet. I have a flashlight within reach.

And if I had a CC permit here, I would never carry a light of any sort on me during the day anyway. I don't leave my house at night usually, so it really isn't an issue.

The picture I'm trying to paint is that for me, in my situation and the way I choose (and am forced) to live my life, a light on my gun isn't necessary, let alone a high-end specific light that costs several hundred dollars. A flashlight on my body also isn't necessary, in most circumstances. Oh and by the way, my smart phone has a flashlight app on it, so there's triple redundancy, if I take your advice, kbd512 (gun light, flashlight, cell phone).

Yes batteries die. My phone is always charged fully every night. I keep a car charger in my car. I don't fault people for wanting to have a flashlight and a gunlight and a flashlight app and a laser on the gun and night sights and two back up guns and a bulletproof vest and a bayonet attachment on one of their backup pistols and a knife or three their body. I don't fault them at all. But telling someone they HAVE to buy a gun with a specific light is ignorant, arrogant, and plain stupid.

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Originally Posted by kbd512

Almost forgot, whatever pistol you choose should probably come with or accept aftermarket tritium sights and a SureFire X300. If it doesn't, it's probably not something you want to carry.

On that note, always carry a small flashlight, folding knife, and cell phone with you. They're complementary tools.
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Old 10-19-2013, 05:00 PM   #27
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Ok. As a civilian: its dark and you are outside looking for your kid, dog, wife, neighbor, whatever. You don't want to shine your gun light around trying to find them right?

Now flip the situation. It's dark. You are threatened by the sound if breaking glass in the front if your house, or garbage cans falling over. Or you hear something that sounds like somebody rummaging through the tool shed. Do you really want to walk down the hall holding a gun in one hand and a light in the other?

I can answer that. No. It's awkward. Night fire with a handheld light just sucks. I've done it before and I HATED it. Most people do .

From a tactical lighting perspective , any time you move from well lit to dark your eyes NEED the extra light. So even in the daylight a gun mounted light is a major asset .

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Old 10-19-2013, 05:05 PM   #28
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Jw, i cant and wont speak for the others, here is what I've learned, first I'm also non LEO.

A bright light on or off the gun can confuse or startle an intruder giving you the upper hand for a moment, I've also seen how it can have similar effects on a person being woke up.

I've also seen in practice a constant light giving away your position,i think that's why some of these lights now strobe.

So really in home use, to try and confuse the intruder, to help keep you from bumping into something giving away your location.

Do you need one, no, is there a possible upside yes.

I have one bedside gun with light and then i have one shot gun with light maybe when i buy the HD rifle I'll get one to,most of my guns don't have a light.

As for a light on person, i do carry a small light just because you never know if you might need little extra light,also keep a large flashlight under the bed if the power goes out.

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Old 10-19-2013, 05:10 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaF
Ok. As a civilian: its dark and you are outside looking for your kid, dog, wife, neighbor, whatever. You don't want to shine your gun light around trying to find them right? Now flip the situation. It's dark. You are threatened by the sound if breaking glass in the front if your house, or garbage cans falling over. Or you hear something that sounds like somebody rummaging through the tool shed. Do you really want to walk down the hall holding a gun in one hand and a light in the other? I can answer that. No. It's awkward. Night fire with a handheld light just sucks. I've done it before and I HATED it. Most people do .
As I said, I understand the arguments. Also as said, I have a flashlight next to my bed (and others elsewhere in the house) at all times. So in the situation where I'm looking for my dog, or kid, or whatever, well that's covered. I wouldn't have to point a gun at them. If we're away from my house looking for them, well I probably would have started in my house, so the light will come with me. Or it might be in my car. So it comes with me regardless.

In your second scenario, that sounds like an argument for having a light on a gun, not having a gun light and a flashlight (redundancy). I am not opposed to having a gun light, just not right now. Maybe someday in the future my bedside gun will have one, because I do agree its easier to have a hand free for whatever I might need it for. I just don't care to spend that much money right now when I have other things I would rather spend money on, and honestly the light on the gun is a matter of convenience. I HAVE a flashlight that goes with me when I hear a bump in the night (along with my M&P9c), so right now convenience isn't a good enough reason to divert funds from something important to something that already has something which does the same thing, just slightly harder.

Its the same reason why I could never justify buying a 70" TV, unless my current 54" broke and it would cost more to repair it than it would replace it. I HAVE a TV (flashlight) so why would I buy a bigger TV (gun light) if only for convenience?

Obviously I thought having a light source was important, or else I wouldn't have a flashlight. Also, the flashlight was free at the time (rewards points on a credit card), and its a very good quality. I believe 500 lumens but I could be wrong. It works perfectly fine for my purposes, right now.

I'm getting long-winded again. I digress. I think you all understand what I'm saying. I certainly get what you're saying.
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Old 10-19-2013, 05:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpubba
A bright light on or off the gun can confuse or startle an intruder giving you the upper hand for a moment, I've also seen how it can have similar effects on a person being woke up. I've also seen in practice a constant light giving away your position,i think that's why some of these lights now strobe. So really in home use, to try and confuse the intruder, to help keep you from bumping into something giving away your location. Do you need one, no, is there a possible upside yes. I have one bedside gun with light and then i have one shot gun with light maybe when i buy the HD rifle I'll get one to,most of my guns don't have a light. As for a light on person, i do carry a small light just because you never know if you might need little extra light,also keep a large flashlight under the bed if the power goes out.
As said, I have a flashlight in my bedroom and others throughout the house. They work well for the purpose, and convenience isn't enough justification for me to shell out the dough (even $100 for a cheap one is too much - do guys you realize how many diapers $100 buys? About four packs. That doesn't last THAT long) for a gun light.

In terms of the extra light on the body, why not just keep it in your car? Maybe a spare cheap one at your office desk. In my own life, I basically always go to the same places. And I'm always near my car. So if I have one in my car (which I don't right now, but this thread has actually made me decide to go buy a cheap one soon), again convenience of not having to walk back to my car to get it does not outweigh the cost and the weight on my body.

*shrug* To each his own. I don't care what you guys do, and you shouldn't care what I do. This is one of those personal preference things. Which gets back to my main point - kbd512 should not have basically said that whatever gun he gets he needs to have a certain type of sights and a certain type of light on it. Give me a break. Your way or the highway, right kbd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbd512
Almost forgot, whatever pistol you choose should probably come with or accept aftermarket tritium sights and a SureFire X300. If it doesn't, it's probably not something you want to carry.

On that note, always carry a small flashlight, folding knife, and cell phone with you. They're complementary tools.
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