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Old 12-12-2011, 05:48 AM   #31
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Thats a best case pic. Me, i go off what happens in worst case with defensive ammo. Worst case is what happens if it doesnt expand... for that it is purely bullet diameter and weight. Thats why i use 230grain 45acp hollowpoints. Handguns arent powerful enough until you get to 357 magnum 158 grain bullets for the temporary cavity to do any real damage.

9 40 45 just arent fast enough for the shockwave to do real damage. Its like the difference between using a gentle shove to move something aside and swinging a ball bat to move something. Both will get things out of the way one will inflict damage doing it.

Thats one of the problems with ballistic gel it gives a false impressiin of what certain rounds can do.
I do agree that balistic gel is by no means the best thing for a comparison to the human body... NOTHING IS, I just didn't have a body cam and a friend around to shoot me. But jon, I ask you, what pistol round is egual to the impact pressure of a rifle round..? I posted the pic for the comparison of each round in the pic. It's also quite obvious that a .45 will do much more damage than a 9mm, then we have the .44mag. and .50AE. Blah, Blah, Blah, and to me worse case is what happens if the gun misfires.

**I digress, I just went back and re-read what you were saying jon. But I disagree with the point that:

"9 40 45 just arent fast enough for the shockwave to do real damage."

Why would you say that if you say that you carry a .45, I'm not being an @$$, I just want to know why you would carry something you said was incapable of causing "real damage"..?
Thanks for the opinion though.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:34 AM   #32
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One shot stop, Federal 38spl +P+ 110gr JHP sometimes they happen. Off duty I carry a Sig 226 357Sig with 125gr Gold Dots.






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Old 12-12-2011, 06:46 AM   #33
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Now THAT is somthing I don't get to see everyday... Thanks for the post armsmaster...

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Old 12-12-2011, 07:57 AM   #34
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I carry Grizzly Extreme in all of my CCW firearms. They claim 1350fps with a 110gr bullet in 9mm, with a 1" x-type expansion from end to end. For a better idea, take 2 paperclips and lay them in a perfect cross on top of each other. Supposedly that's what they'll do... We have the expanded models at my work in bags and I have to say that even if I did bite into a gimmick, they sure as hell look deadly... Check them out.

http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=grizzlyxtreme&si d=vtqh7h66035336v9588k3mrp372101qt

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Old 12-12-2011, 09:35 AM   #35
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I don't doubt their ability to expand like that as much as I doubt their ability to penetrate more than 6" of flesh. If the round gets stuck in a bad guy's bicep on its way to the heart, it won't do you any good when you have to wait 5 minutes for him to bleed out.

Link to the picture of the "shot that stopped just short"
The Gun Zone -- Michael Platt Arm and Chest Shot

Link to the article about why penetration is now seen as important.
The Gun Zone -- FBI Miami Firefight aftermath

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Old 12-12-2011, 01:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANGRYcanary View Post
I do agree that balistic gel is by no means the best thing for a comparison to the human body... NOTHING IS, I just didn't have a body cam and a friend around to shoot me. But jon, I ask you, what pistol round is egual to the impact pressure of a jrifle round..? I posted the pic for the comparison of each round in the pic. It's also quite obvious that a .45 will do much more damage than a 9mm, then we have the .44mag. and .50AE. Blah, Blah, Blah, and to me worse case is what happens if the gun misfires.

**I digress, I just went back and re-read what you were saying jon. But I disagree with the point that:

"9 40 45 just arent fast enough for the shockwave to do real damage."

Why would you say that if you say that you carry a .45, I'm not being an @$$, I just want to know why you would carry something you said was incapable of causing "real damage"..?
Thanks for the opinion though.
357magnum comes closest to being able to produce real damage from hydroshock. I dont shoot revolvers well enough to carry one effectively so i go with the 45 its the next best thing to a 357mag. The 357 sig supposedly comes close but im not convinced enough and there arent carry guns im willing to use to utilize that round

I prolly did not say it well enough im not always able to translate my thoughts to type as i would like.

I like the 45 because its the pistol round that produces the largest nonexpanding wound channel that has the ease of use, fast reloads and capacity i look for.

If a 45 expands all the better. The bigger the hole the faster the leak the sooner the goblin stops.

I look at it from the stand point of poking a hole in a bucket. A .45 inch hole will empty the bucket faster than a .35 or .40 inch hole.

I do use 380 acp from time to time but i prefer 45acp. Im a proponent of using the biggest as in diameter pistol round you can reasonably be fast and accurate with. If 9mm is good for you use it. It doesnt matter what round it is if you hit the heart or brain but for off center hits i want something big.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:38 PM   #37
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But the 357 expans and it goz threw watever your shooting at and it might empty the five gallon bucket quicker with to holes that's just what I think

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Old 12-12-2011, 06:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM View Post
357magnum comes closest to being able to produce real damage from hydroshock. I dont shoot revolvers well enough to carry one effectively so i go with the 45 its the next best thing to a 357mag. The 357 sig supposedly comes close but im not convinced enough and there arent carry guns im willing to use to utilize that round

I prolly did not say it well enough im not always able to translate my thoughts to type as i would like.

I like the 45 because its the pistol round that produces the largest nonexpanding wound channel that has the ease of use, fast reloads and capacity i look for.

If a 45 expands all the better. The bigger the hole the faster the leak the sooner the goblin stops.

I look at it from the stand point of poking a hole in a bucket. A .45 inch hole will empty the bucket faster than a .35 or .40 inch hole.

I do use 380 acp from time to time but i prefer 45acp. Im a proponent of using the biggest as in diameter pistol round you can reasonably be fast and accurate with. If 9mm is good for you use it. It doesnt matter what round it is if you hit the heart or brain but for off center hits i want something big.
Damn... I knew I was misreading what you posted, don't think my retort was to accost you.

JonM "If 9mm is good for you use it. It doesnt matter what round it is if you hit the heart or brain but for off center hits i want something big."

I agree completely, I love the .44 mag, but a Desert Eagle is no carry weapon. It's just too bulky, and a shoulder holster is just not a good thing in a self defense situation, sure it could be done, but there are better ways of doing it. There's a level of worry due to over penetration there as well, as tunnel vision creeps in, so does the ability to tap into something, or more importantly, someone that shouldn't be tapped into.

Did that make sense..?
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:07 PM   #39
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There are full-power .44mag loads that don't penetrate any more than standard service-caliber loads. Of course, they do a whole lot more damage in that ~12-13", but not all .44mag loads are designed to penetrate a buffalo end-to-end .

And I daily carried a .44mag Raging Bull for about 7 months, IWB (with the 8.375" barrel). I also loved the caliber. I ended up selling it after having a couple small issues that made me doubt that it was up for the amount of use it got (I put about 3000 rounds through it in that time frame, plus about 10k dry fires). But, sometimes I do miss it. Funny enough, in those first 6 shots, I was better with the Raging Bull than I'd ever been with any other gun, including my current 9mm Glock :P .

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