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Old 12-08-2011, 12:18 AM   #21
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After years of shooting I have narrowed my personal choice of EDC ammo to Honady Critical Defense in all calibers.....JMHO

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Old 12-08-2011, 12:35 AM   #22
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After years of shooting I have narrowed my personal choice of EDC ammo to Honady Critical Defense in all calibers.....JMHO
OK, I have to ask ---WHY
Did every guy you shot die quickly?
Kidding a little but -------------
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Old 12-08-2011, 01:15 AM   #23
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Hornady is good stuff, that's what I like but Winchester makes one too, I think it's called ?Ranger? but not too sure...
Hoss... You crack me up..

handgun_gel_comparison.jpg  
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Old 12-08-2011, 12:49 PM   #24
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For the .45acp I believe that most of the premium SD factory ammo out there is good. I have been collecting different types of SD factory ammo for the .45acp for a long time. I have read about the ammo from many sources. I personally prefer the 230-grain rounds but have many others as well. I feel good about the .45acp because it throws a big chunk of lead, or whatever the bullet is made of these days. Most of what I have heard tells me that the .45 has some impressive stopping power. Of course, shot placement will always be a critical factor in this equation, with any handgun round. If I had the luxury of early warning and time I probably would prefer to use my .44 mag with a 265-grain load to defend myself against a BG, or probably one of my rifles. If I was getting my .45 prepared for carry I would probably load it with something like the Cor Bon 230-grain.

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Old 12-08-2011, 03:07 PM   #25
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I would go to http://www.internetarmory.com
They break all the home defensive ammo down from rifle to pistol all calibers and have a great amount of info for what you are looking for cause what mite work for mite not work for you

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Old 12-08-2011, 03:35 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ANGRYcanary View Post
Hornady is good stuff, that's what I like but Winchester makes one too, I think it's called ?Ranger? but not too sure...
Hoss... You crack me up..
Thats a best case pic. Me, i go off what happens in worst case with defensive ammo. Worst case is what happens if it doesnt expand... for that it is purely bullet diameter and weight. Thats why i use 230grain 45acp hollowpoints. Handguns arent powerful enough until you get to 357 magnum 158 grain bullets for the temporary cavity to do any real damage.

9 40 45 just arent fast enough for the shockwave to do real damage. Its like the difference between using a gentle shove to move something aside and swinging a ball bat to move something. Both will get things out of the way one will inflict damage doing it.

Thats one of the problems with ballistic gel it gives a false impressiin of what certain rounds can do.
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Old 12-10-2011, 08:25 PM   #27
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Default Trex1310, a clarificaton, please

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Forget about the "one shot stop" junk you read on the internet.
There is no such thing. It just so happens that I was involved in an altercation and I was carrying a Springfield XD .45acp loaded with Speer Golddot 230gr jhp. It stopped the bad guy, but didn't incapacitate or knock him from his feet. The round struck him just left of the sternum. Range was 10-12 feet. I have since switched to a Glock .357 Sig with Speer Golddot 125gr jhp.
You shot an assailant, hitting him just left of the sternum.
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It stopped the bad guy, but didn't incapacitate or knock him from his feet.
It 'stopped' him but didn't 'incapacitate' him.

I understand he wasn't knocked from his feet. Most gunshot recipients simply 'crumple' without much drama. That's normal even with rifle round hits.

1. Did he elect to quit moving of his own volition, or was he unable to proceed?

2. Did he fire any more shots at you, or in some other manner continue his attack?

3. If you think that round was ineffective and no handgun will suffice, why bother changing rounds? By your statement, it won't work any better.

I don't understand your statement, obviously. I'm not trying to belittle you, but your statement raises the questions I have put to you. Thank you.
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Old 12-10-2011, 08:36 PM   #28
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Pretty much all the 'premium' self-defense ammo works as well as the other. Each has special features, but I don't see enough difference in results to dance over.

However, different brands of ammo will function better or worse in any specific gun. One finds 'this' brand of ammo feeds, chambers, fires and ejects in a more consistent manner than 'that' brand in the specific gun in question. One finds Brand A will group better than Brands B, C and D in the specific gun in question.

My suggestion is to purchase a small box of several and take them to the range. See which groups and functions better than the others. If they all run well and shoot a tight group to the sights, then pick the cheapest - he said frugally.

I have a stash - three or four hundred rounds - of Federal Hydra-Shok 230 grain ammo from years ago. Guess what I carry most? I'm also fond of Winchester Silver Tip in most handgun calibers. But I prefer 230 grain projectiles for .45 ACP.

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Old 12-11-2011, 01:57 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MrWray View Post
Even 230g ball ammo is a good SD round when it comes down to it. JMB originally designed the 1911 to feed nothing but ball ammo, a bullet that heavy travelling at the speed it does is gonna deal extensive damage whether its an FMJ or JHP. Just use what makes you comfortable
A .45FMJ will do less far damage than any moderately-expanding service caliber bullet.

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Originally Posted by Firearms4ever View Post
That's very true. I personally wouldn't want to use FMJ ammunition, because over penetration is a big concern with ball ammunition. My father use to work at one of the local hospitals and one night after coming home from work he was telling me about how a woman got shot in the ear by a FMJ bullet over penetrating from her neighbor's house.
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i carry fmj in my spare mag. if gods forbid im ever getting shot at by a loony under cover i can switch mags to fmj for barrier penetration.
JHPs don't penetrate intermediate barriers any less. The only complaint anyone has regarding barrier penetration with JHPs is the relatively inconsistent performance in soft tissue after passing through the barrier. But, there is nothing to be gained by using FMJs for barrier penetration, as the absolute worst case for a JHP is that it won't expand after passing through the barrier. But, if it does expand even slightly (which almost all modern bullets will now do), it is better than FMJ. And, of course, if you get a few shots straight to flesh, the JHPs will do that much better.

*edit*
For example, you can see in this test that the 9mm JHPs, while negatively affected by the glass, actually still expanded and got more than adequate penetration. In fact, even with such poor expansion, the bullets would have done more tissue damage than a .45 FMJ by far. So again, I'd just load everything with quality JHPs because you really aren't giving up any barrier penetration capabilities by using them, but you ARE unnecessarily giving up tissue damage.
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:46 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BlueTurf View Post
For the .45acp I believe that most of the premium SD factory ammo out there is good.
Assuming a lot of people in this thread think 9mm is "under-performing," you should note that only a few .40 and .45 loads notably exceed the wounding capabilities of quality 9mms. Also note that it is actually quite rare that .45 performance exceeds "typical" 9mm performance when used in <5" barrels. All 9mm ballistic data present is based on 4" guns. From a similar-length barrel, performance is actually quite similar to higher-end 9mm loads (the only one they tested out of a 4" barrel that I'd call "higher end" is the Golden Saber).

9mm 124gr Golden Saber (4" barrel, Average .684" expansion and 12.6" penetration):
124 grain +P Remington Golden Saber

9mm 147gr Golden saber (4" barrel, Average .62" expansion, >14.5" penetration)
147gr Remington Golden Saber JHP





.45acp "Short Barrel" test, including GD, GD +P, and Hydrashock (3.8" barrel, average .68" expansion and 12.3" penetration)
Various .45ACP JHPs (test 2)

.45ac 230gr Gold Dot "Short Barrel" (3.8" barrel, average .62" expansion, 14.3" penetration):
230 grain Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel

.45acp 165gr Powerball +P (3.8" barrel, average expansion .68", average penetration 11.8").
165gr +P Cor-Bon Pow'r Ball

.45acp 230gr XTP +P (3.8" barrel, average expansion .665", average penetration 12.6")
230 grain +P Hornady XTP (short barrel gun)

Speer 200gr GD +P (3.8" barrel, average expansion .665", average penetration 12.4").

This is not particularly to start a flame war, but I wanted to emphasize that we should be careful making the assumption that the .45 is guaranteed to instantly incapacitate no matter what it's loaded with, especially if we are also going to imply that it is significantly better than the other service calibers. And as Jon said, none of them are moving nearly fast enough to impart any permanent damage from temporary tissue cavitation. So, given it is all a matter of how wide the bullet expands and how deep it goes, it looks like they really are all on a quite similar playing field when it comes to wound volume, with modern ammo.
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