Open Carry vs Concealed Carry - a comprehensive response to critics - Page 3
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:38 PM   #21
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I don't doubt that there is some deternet effect to open carry. A ballistic missile submarine has a deterent effect while concealed. An aircraft carrier has a deterent effect in the open, if I may use naval parralels that are comfortable for me.
Can't begin to imagine going under water in a submarine. I Open Carried on a heavy cruiser for 4 years and a Swift Boat for 1 year in Vietnam. Open Carry on Swifts wasn't much of a deterrent in tight canals with high grass though. The BGs liked cover.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:27 PM   #22
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IdahoCarry,

Welcome to the forum. I hope you decide to stick around and head over to the introduction area and tell us a bit about yourself.

I think you have some very valid and compelling points. For the record, I agree with you. Although I do not currently carry in any manner because it is illegal for me where I live (live in Kalifornia, no CC permit). I have carried in the past though, in NC. I only ever CCed. But in the future I plan to do both, as the situation dictates.

For some of the other posters, he isn't advocating only OC. He said he doesn't OC in areas where it wouldn't work as a deterrent. I assume he CCs in those areas. For those of you thinking he is trying to be a bada*s, well quite frankly I disagree. I believe OCing with a pleasant attitude is, as he said, being an ambassador for the 2A. He even talked about having the proper attitude.

Personally I look forward to the day I can OC.

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Old 10-23-2013, 04:53 PM   #23
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The OCer was not targeted, it was a theft of opportunity because the OCer was not maintaining a situational awareness because his arms were extended reaching for a product and he allowed a teenager access to his gun. But his biggest mistake was chasing the kid knowing that the kid had his gun and that a bullet was chambered. Using this as a typical incident of guns being taken from OCers is a red herring. It's a reminder to OCers to always maintain situational awareness. Not chasing a guy who is carrying a loaded gun is a no-brainer.
Situational awarness still applies in the case of a CCer. The same attention ofthe wrong person canhappen if you print, your jacket opens a little too far, or your shirt rides up in front of the wrong person at the wrong time. OCing just makes you a more obvious mark for a BG with bad intentions.

As to PI and process serving in DC. I thought that up untill last year, carrying in DC was not legal unless you were LE. I did not live there, so I can't be sure, but I thought they did n't issue CHLs. Or was the Heller verdict over something else?
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:55 PM   #24
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Idaho Your 1st and 4th paragraph cover the same problem with to different carry applications. Corn-fussing views to me.

I live were I can OC but I don't like drawing attention to my self no matter if around BG's or anti gun people . I have CC'd for 27 years and will continue to do so except when handgun hunting.

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Old 10-23-2013, 05:09 PM   #25
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IdahoCarry,

Welcome to the forum. I hope you decide to stick around and head over to the introduction area and tell us a bit about yourself.

I think you have some very valid and compelling points. For the record, I agree with you. Although I do not currently carry in any manner because it is illegal for me where I live (live in Kalifornia, no CC permit). I have carried in the past though, in NC. I only ever CCed. But in the future I plan to do both, as the situation dictates.

For some of the other posters, he isn't advocating only OC. He said he doesn't OC in areas where it wouldn't work as a deterrent. I assume he CCs in those areas. For those of you thinking he is trying to be a bada*s, well quite frankly I disagree. I believe OCing with a pleasant attitude is, as he said, being an ambassador for the 2A. He even talked about having the proper attitude.

Personally I look forward to the day I can OC.
Pretty much what I took from it as well JW. I agree that it would be nice to have the option of OCing as well, but I live in NY at this time. CCing is all that is allowed, OC is a rare thing in my state, you only see it during hunting season, if at all, out in public. On private land and at most LGSs in my area, you are likely to see folks OCing as well. The problem is our laws. Here if you print it is considered brandishment, and if you are OCing in a public place, the minimum charge will be DTP. The advantage to a CC pistol permit is this. the pnly places we can not carry are as follows:

County, State, and Federal buildings
Schools and State Universities.
Any building with a No weapons beyond this point sign (They carry the WOL here).
On private property without the consent of the owner or manager.

The first two will get you charged with a crime, and a potential felony conviction. The last two will lead to trespass charges only if you refuse to leave. Like you JW, I am planning a move to a different state ASAFP. One of the criteria is better gun laws, and the option of OC is on the list of said criteria. Great post BTW.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:12 PM   #26
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Like you JW, I am planning a move to a different state ASAFP. One of the criteria is better gun laws, and the option of OC is on the list of said criteria. Great post BTW.
Thanks brother. I wish you luck in your move.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:18 PM   #27
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The OCer was not targeted, it was a theft of opportunity because the OCer was not maintaining a situational awareness because his arms were extended reaching for a product and he allowed a teenager access to his gun. But his biggest mistake was chasing the kid knowing that the kid had his gun and that a bullet was chambered. Using this as a typical incident of guns being taken from OCers is a red herring. It's a reminder to OCers to always maintain situational awareness. Not chasing a guy who is carrying a loaded gun is a no-brainer.
Even during hunting season when I do open carry I am not watching every teenager that gets near me. The situation was not caused by situational awareness. The situation was caused by the lack of or not using a retention strap.

Leather holsters with no retention strap and no slot for the rear sight are junk.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:37 PM   #28
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Idaho Your 1st and 4th paragraph cover the same problem with to different carry applications. Corn-fussing views to me.

I live were I can OC but I don't like drawing attention to my self no matter if around BG's or anti gun people . I have CC'd for 27 years and will continue to do so except when handgun hunting.
How so hardluk? I lived on Capitol Hill in DC, 2 blocks from the hood. Gun shots could be heard every few nights and sirens were non-stop. DC is a jungle and many of the BGs are young teens looking to enhance their creds with the gangs. Wisdom and Prudence says that you don't OC on the bad guys turf because it is their dominion and OCing would be an in your face challenge to them.

When I moved to Idaho three years ago and found out how gun friendly they were but had no state wide gun organization, I started Idaho Open Carry which morphed into Idaho Carry Open & Concealed because half of our members CC. We found the 45% of my county were liberals and you could see their finger prints on efforts to restrict carry in our state.

We revealed counties and cities that were passing laws restricting carry and we wrote a law last year that took that right away from them and left it totally with the state. We are promoting 5 pieces of pro-gun legislation this year and our Open Carrying allows us to enter into positive discussions daily with citizens and we are winning over hearts and minds of the fence sitters.

OC attracts and encourages positive reactions and naturalizes the presence of guns in a county where too many of our citizens would like to see guns totally removed from society. We are the bold beautiful face of the 2nd Amendment.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:51 PM   #29
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How so hardluk? I lived on Capitol Hill in DC, 2 blocks from the hood. Gun shots could be heard every few nights and sirens were non-stop. DC is a jungle and many of the BGs are young teens looking to enhance their creds with the gangs. Wisdom and Prudence says that you don't OC on the bad guys turf because it is their dominion and OCing would be an in your face challenge to them. When I moved to Idaho three years ago and found out how gun friendly they were but had no state wide gun organization, I started Idaho Open Carry which morphed into Idaho Carry Open & Concealed because half of our members CC. We found the 45% of my county were liberals and you could see their finger prints on efforts to restrict carry in our state. We revealed counties and cities that were passing laws restricting carry and we wrote a law last year that took that right away from them and left it totally with the state. We are promoting 5 pieces of pro-gun legislation this year and our Open Carrying allows us to enter into positive discussions daily with citizens and we are winning over hearts and minds of the fence sitters. OC attracts and encourages positive reactions and naturalizes the presence of guns in a county where too many of our citizens would like to see guns totally removed from society. We are the bold beautiful face of the 2nd Amendment.
It sounds like you're doing great things for people living in Idaho. I hope you continue to be successful. We need to be fighting these fights in every state of the nation. Unfortunately, some states, such as Kalifornia, might be lost. But we can at least be proactive and keep up the good fight in most other states.
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:57 PM   #30
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Can't begin to imagine going under water in a submarine. I Open Carried on a heavy cruiser for 4 years and a Swift Boat for 1 year in Vietnam. Open Carry on Swifts wasn't much of a deterrent in tight canals with high grass though. The BGs liked cover.
I don't have to imagine going underwater in a submarine. I can't imagine going under water in any other vessel. They are all capable of diving once. The trick is making the surfacings equal the dives.
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