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Old 01-09-2014, 02:26 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by KingGlamis View Post
All of my local gun stores allow open carry and of course CC, but the ranges here require that the gun be unloaded with no magazine. It is kind of strange that the range said you have to "cover" it. What is the purpose of that?
This particular range is owned by a couple of police officers, not sure if they are current active duty or not. Many LEO do not believe in OC. It was the first and last time I stepped foot in that range/store, which kinda sucks as it's close to my Father in Laws house and I take him shooting from time to time.

Former Co-Worker's brother works for a local dept. He had told my co-worker that OC was not permitted in their city. Michigan Open Carry leadership contacted the chief of that city, who promised that he would once again pass the message down to his officers that OC was legal. No names were mentioned, and I'm realizing as I type this I never circled back to see if the chief followed through.
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:48 AM   #12
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I would have sued the shiz outta them for that. I would have tore them up in court because a terry frisk can only be used if they believe a crime has taken place, is taking place, or is going to take place. I would have owned that department for several infringements on Constitutional Rights namely the 2nd, the 4th and the 14th amendments.
And your understanding of a Terry stop is not accurate.
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Old 01-15-2014, 04:14 AM   #13
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Some will dog me for this, but I live/work in a State where OC is not legal. In places like Arizona where it is legal and has been, there should be no problem. People have been around it for many years and are "used" to it. The main problem you will encounter is from the Kali type imports who do not have a clue.

Going from no OC to OC in a State is difficult on the populace. Not impossible, but difficult. When we adopted CC in Texas MANY people, Peace Officers especially, did not understand and were "afraid" of the potential outcome. Gladly NONE of the predictions came to pass. I had co-workers who were running around like chickens with their heads cut off proclaiming blood will run in the streets! I was all to happy to say "I told you so" when that did not happen.

OC is a different animal. Right, wrong or otherwise the general populace is a bunch of Hoplophobes. They see a gun and freak out! Hell, one of our Detectives got accosted by the local PD because he was OC in plain clothes (with badge on the belt and handcuffs in the back). When the back up units arrived they dogged out the primary officers for being STUPID!

On another note though, with the media attention given to the mass shootings, the people ARE afraid. One never really knows what the intentions are. We can preach all day long about 2nd Amendment rights, but what about the knuckleheads who DO go on shooting sprees? Are we to ignore EVERYONE carrying a gun and let these crazy bastages go on killing?

An armed society is a polite society. If EVERYONE OC'd there would lnot be a problem. There are way too many sheep who just wet themselves at the sight of a gun. We are reaping the "benefits" of a safe society. Perhaps it has been too safe. People have become complacent. They rely on the government for their safety (and food, and housing, and medical care, and transprtation, etc). Yes Benjamin Franklin was right, those who will give up some of their rights in exchange for safety, deserve neither. It will take a major upheaval in society for the current trend to be reversed. I am not necessarily opposed to such an upheaval. A little chlorine in the gene pool will be good in the long run.

But I digress. OC is an isue best left to the individual State. If Kali, NY, NJ, Hellinois, etc do not want it, that is their right. If places like Arizona and Michigan do? That too is their right. Please use common sense and be considerate of the rights (and "feelings") of others. If you choose to OC, you should carry some small fliers to hand out that explain the law. If some education is passed on, the issue will die down.
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:36 PM   #14
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I know what a terry frisk is there is no flaw in how I wrote it I know I have been a federal law enforcement officer and have used them. Here is the exact definition In the United States, a "Terry stop" is a brief detention of a person by police on reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity but short of probable cause to arrest.
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:36 PM   #15
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OK, You cannot reasonably articulate a crime in that scenario. One that should be investigated? The way they went about it leaves a BUNCH to be desired, but a legit Terry Stop none the less.
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:49 PM   #16
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OK, You cannot reasonably articulate a crime in that scenario. One that should be investigated? The way they went about it leaves a BUNCH to be desired, but a legit Terry Stop none the less.

Unless he was pulled over for some type of violation they cannot just stop and frisk him on his motorcycle and "just because he was carrying a gun" is not reasonable suspicion in a state where OC is legal. I am sorry but many of the LEOs need more training in states where oc is legal because like I said if you stop me without reasonable suspicion or any violation or crime and attempt to frisk me and restrict my freedom of movement I will own that town
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:35 PM   #17
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Each state has it's own rules & regulations. I have lived in AZ - OC & CT - CC and can attest to the hostile environment in CT or CC state.

I have a CC license - Why ? - You need one just to transport your guns to the range in CT. Every mass shooting gets alot of press in here. If someone see's your weapon or even just thinks they do, they panic and call the police. The police respond as if there is a mass shooting.

While searching on-line (not always the most reliable data) I came across a State Police memo stating the officers had the right to detain anyone w a gun until they could ascertain the situation.

No idea on the legality but the bottom line is the police can make your life extremely uncomfortable if they choose to.
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:39 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
Some will dog me for this, but I live/work in a State where OC is not legal. In places like Arizona where it is legal and has been, there should be no problem. People have been around it for many years and are "used" to it. The main problem you will encounter is from the Kali type imports who do not have a clue.

Going from no OC to OC in a State is difficult on the populace. Not impossible, but difficult. When we adopted CC in Texas MANY people, Peace Officers especially, did not understand and were "afraid" of the potential outcome. Gladly NONE of the predictions came to pass. I had co-workers who were running around like chickens with their heads cut off proclaiming blood will run in the streets! I was all to happy to say "I told you so" when that did not happen.

OC is a different animal. Right, wrong or otherwise the general populace is a bunch of Hoplophobes. They see a gun and freak out! Hell, one of our Detectives got accosted by the local PD because he was OC in plain clothes (with badge on the belt and handcuffs in the back). When the back up units arrived they dogged out the primary officers for being STUPID!

On another note though, with the media attention given to the mass shootings, the people ARE afraid. One never really knows what the intentions are. We can preach all day long about 2nd Amendment rights, but what about the knuckleheads who DO go on shooting sprees? Are we to ignore EVERYONE carrying a gun and let these crazy bastages go on killing?

An armed society is a polite society. If EVERYONE OC'd there would lnot be a problem. There are way too many sheep who just wet themselves at the sight of a gun. We are reaping the "benefits" of a safe society. Perhaps it has been too safe. People have become complacent. They rely on the government for their safety (and food, and housing, and medical care, and transprtation, etc). Yes Benjamin Franklin was right, those who will give up some of their rights in exchange for safety, deserve neither. It will take a major upheaval in society for the current trend to be reversed. I am not necessarily opposed to such an upheaval. A little chlorine in the gene pool will be good in the long run.

But I digress. OC is an isue best left to the individual State. If Kali, NY, NJ, Hellinois, etc do not want it, that is their right. If places like Arizona and Michigan do? That too is their right. Please use common sense and be considerate of the rights (and "feelings") of others. If you choose to OC, you should carry some small fliers to hand out that explain the law. If some education is passed on, the issue will die down.
Tweeeet! Personal Foul. Robocop10mm. Inserting logic, intelligence, and understanding into an Open Carry thread.

Well done!
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:15 PM   #19
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Florida v J.L. said an anonymous tip of illegal behavior was insufficient reason to conduct a search, why would legal activity suddenly be ok?
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:54 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by John_Deer View Post
The LGS/range made their position clear. I wouldn't spend a penny in that shop after being told to cover my weapon in a gun shop/range.
Yeah, no kidding!!!! In a gun store / range????? Is nothing sacred anymore????
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