One platform?
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:53 PM   #1
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Default One platform?

Watching the Top Shot pistol challenge brings up a question:

Should a true pistolero be able to shoot any platform well?

Brad's whining about the Beretta not being a Glock struck me as silly as a true pistol "champion" should be proficient with any modern handgun. While I shoot 1911s best, I also stay proficient with a lot of other platforms like Sigs (classic DA/SA) and XDs (striker fired) and even DA revolvers.

Given a choice to shoot a challenge I'd always grab a 1911; however, I'm confident I could adapt if I didn't get to choose. I won 2 pin matches in a row a while back and all the fellas were ragging me that it was the gun and not the shooter. The next match I shot with a Sig 229 in .40 and I still placed in the top four. TBH, I doubt I would have finished any higher that night even with my trusted 1911. While focusing on a single platform will certainly increase your skill level with that gun, I think it's important not to limit yourself as the "perfect" gun might not be handy when you need it...

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Old 06-16-2010, 11:08 PM   #2
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That's some good think'n there NGIB.

How many times in a life or death situation will you be required to use someone else's 1st choice in firearms.

I wish they had pin shoots closer geographically to me.

As a side note how are the pins arranged?

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Old 06-16-2010, 11:10 PM   #3
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There is no excuse in my mind & there should be no debate.

If you are a "Pistol Champion" and ranked as "Grand Master" or whatever the flavor of the month is for those Secret Handshake Clowns, you should be able to pick up anything and put rounds on target.

I don't think they should have to be able to shoot dimes out of the air at 15 paces, but they should be able to shoot well enough to put rounds in the black cold, and be drilling the 10 out of the target with some warm up.

Being a "master" of one type of pistol would be like earning a Black Belt in Front Kick or Right Hand Punch.

Bottom line, that guy shoots one pistol well, it's probably a fully tuned race gun worth 10 times what a stock model would cost and I don't think he is that friggin good. He might be fast, and that is a skill that is measured, but that doesn't make him a Marksman in my mind.

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Old 06-16-2010, 11:46 PM   #4
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Bottom line, that guy shoots one pistol well, it's probably a fully tuned race gun worth 10 times what a stock model would cost and I don't think he is that friggin good. He might be fast, and that is a skill that is measured, but that doesn't make him a Marksman in my mind.

JD
Exactly what I was thinking. I'd expect a champion to drill the x-ring at 25 feet with any functioning pistol. While I don't shoot a Sig as well as a 1911 (who can?), I'm respectable with it.

As for pin matches, it's 5 regulation bowling pins spaced about 18 inches apart, waist high, at 7 yards...
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:15 AM   #5
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Brad is a prima donna, and I doubt he'll survive the next two eliminations. Or I hope the Marines throw him a blanket party.

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Old 06-17-2010, 12:18 AM   #6
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As soon as I realized it was set up as a reality-style show i lost interest. I am sure some on this forum here are or have come across someone who can run rings around these folks.

I'll stick with watching the military sniper shows to try and gleen some expertise

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Old 06-17-2010, 12:41 AM   #7
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Exactly what I was thinking. I'd expect a champion to drill the x-ring at 25 feet with any functioning pistol. While I don't shoot a Sig as well as a 1911 (who can?), I'm respectable with it.
Yeah, we are on the same page there brother.

Look, Grand Master ( or Distinguished Marksman, Double Distinguished Marksman ) is an accomplishment that deserves to be recognized.

That being said, that doesn't make you a water walking God. You did one thing well. You participated in a discipline and you got to a point where other people wanted to be you. Congratulations.

But if you are going to represent yourself as a true marksman, champion or "expert" then you need to be able to do it regardless of the conditions, regardless of the weapon and regardless of your own opinion of the weapon you are using.

What if a sniper showed up to a scene, was asked to take a shot, missed, killing the hostage or allowing the bad guy to do same and then said "This weapon isn't the best choice for this job - it wasn't my fault"?

I just don't think being able to shoot really well with your "fully tuned-to-you-and-your-shooting style" weapon is the same thing as someone who is a natural or someone like a member from the SF community that had to qualify with everything out there.

I was at a range one time, about 100 years ago when I was just a young gun. There was a guy who was shooting his "new" pistol. It was some sort of automatic like a S&W, but I don't honestly know what it was. The guy had just picked it up that day and was trying it out for the first time.

He was shooting like shi*ite with it and was complaining to his buddy. He went to the guy behind the counter and complained. The guy came into the range and watched as the guy shot it and saw that he wasn't doing well with it. He tried to give the guy a couple of pointers, but the guy wasn't having it. "The sights were messed up" is what he said a few times.

Finally the guy/owner, who was about 40 or 45, took the weapon and proceeded to shoot two mags through it. Absolutely beautiful groups on the left and right of the main target, still in the white, but tight solid groups that probably measured about 3/4" total. He turned to the guy and said the sights were fine and that he would need to spend some time with the weapon, then turned and walked out.

When I was bringing my rental gun back, I asked him where he learned to shoot and he told me he was born with a pistol and when he joined the Marines he was taught to really shoot it. I never forgot that.

That guy was a "Marksman" to me.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:55 AM   #8
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As soon as I realized it was set up as a reality-style show i lost interest.
Yeah I'm with you.'Reality' shows never appealed to me.

Just like the "ultimate fighter" show,its a topic of interest for me,but the format is full of the kind of interpersonal drama I try to avoid,rather than willfully observe,in everyday life.

I did watch what ya'll were talking about tho.

What I dont understand is how someone who calls themselves a muckedy-muck grand poo-bahh in a skillset can be so sensitive to equipment.

If your really that good at something,your skill should transcend your equipment and all the other circumstances surrounding a given situation.
No matter where you are or what youve got to work with-the skills,if they are real-are there.Always.

Like an escrima master in a restaurant with a butter knife.I bet he can use it if he had to!

Anyone calling themselves a master pistoleer or whatever should be able to pick up any kind of handgun,even something as obscure as a Type 14 Nambu,and make it work.
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:59 AM   #9
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I've always felt that a person that handles weapons, especially if you have a ccw license, should be able to shoot any kind of weapon. It may well be that under a really bad situation one may have to pick up someone elses weapon to protect yourself or others. I've been fortunate in that since I was a youngster I was pretty good at figuring out mechanical things so it doesn't take me too long to figure out how a weapon I've never picked up before works. I'm not saying that I'm an exception but it certainly isn't a bad idea for people to handle as many firearms as possible, it might just save someones life.

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Old 06-17-2010, 05:31 AM   #10
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Since I started shooting IPSC/USPSA a couple of months ago I've got to shoot with some really great shooters. Its a little complicated but I'd thought I'd share some insight into how the rankings occur, and why being a "Grandmaster" or whatever doesn't necessarily mean anything or everything.

The classifications are based on standardized courses of fire, usually short stand and shoot stages of 6-16 rounds that are not much like the 20-32rd field courses that require alot of fast, accurate shooting and reloading on the move.
The classifier stages are usually just one stage out of the 5 or 6 stages shot in the match.
The classifier scores for the type of pistol you shoot(open, limited, limited 10, single stack, production, revolver) are compared with the all time records for that type of pistol in that classifier stage nationwide

The whole concept of classifiers is to establish a baseline so you are competing for score (and prizes in larger matches) in a class of shooters with similiar skills using similiar equipment. Open class race guns compete with each other, production guns compete with production guns.

While I haven't seen it personally with anyone I've shot with, I hear the problem is some people JUST try to master the classifiers. All they are worried about is moving up in rankings, Other's may sandbag on the classifiers in order to stay in a lower class to have a better chance of winning their class at matches. The classifier stages are really only a small part of the overall matches however.

I've shot a few matches with and got some great coaching from a guy who is a GM in open and limited, master in Single stack and production and he can flat out shoot. I've seen him shoot other people's guns regardless of brand or setup that he has never touched before and fly through a match shooting nearly all A-zone hits.
I've seen the video's of the Top Shooter guy shooting match stages and he looks slower than alot of the A and some of the B class shooters I've seen. Maybe he's one of those guys that just focuses on practicing and shooting good classifiers in order to get that GM tag after his name. He definitely looked the part of a poser.

I've found shooting Uspsa great practice and my overall skills have greatly improved in the short amount of time I've been doing it. The classes don't mean much to me, I'm trying to win my Single Stack(1911) division at every match even though I'm a lowly C class. I traded guns with a bud one match(he wanted to try a 1911). I shot his Glock17 in Production division and placed about the same in production as I usually do with my own pistol. I think it is more the shooter than the gun.

But this clown needs to ask about the secret handshake, I haven't learned it yet

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