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Old 10-16-2008, 10:39 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Defender View Post
You nailed it, Matt.

And Kimber-haters have been known to make phony forum posts, ranting about all the alleged "problems" they've been having with their Kimber, and they've never owned a Kimber in their life.

Kimber's quality is LIGHT YEARS above garbage guns like Armscor and Taurus. You can't BS most American gun owners. Kimber DOMINATES the 1911 market because they produce a proven superior product.

If Kimber's were the "defective dogs" the jealous Kimber-haters claim they are, the American public would've figured it out years ago and dropped them like hot rocks. The fact that Kimber dominates the 1911 market year after year, even at a considerably higher price point than garbage guns like Armscor and Taurus, is clear proof of Kimber's high quality.

If the garbage guns were really just as good as Kimber, everybody would save a few hundred bucks and buy the cheapos. Instead, they very willingly spend hundreds of dollars more, knowing they're going to get an excellent 1911 that's well worth the extra money.
Well I have never shot a Kimber so I really not in a position to give a comment, nor have I any experience of Armscorp (Ron loves them....) but I have shot a few Taurus PT1911, and for what it's worth my opinion was they where very well made, fit and finsh good, operated flawlessly and shot well. I think without qualification it's a little of a sweeping statement to lable them as garbage.........
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:56 PM   #32
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Well Boris there isn't much you can do to convince someone like Defender who obviously drinks Kimber Koolaide by the gallon .

Now he wants us to believe he is some kind of forum cop running around verifying negative stories on Kimbers .

He Must have popped for a Raptor or something that couldn't make it through a whole magazine without choking and wants to convince everyone else to fall in the same $1,000 Jam-O-matic trap he did to sooth his ego .

He brags on them being "Light years" ahead of the quality of Taurus when they have only been making 1911's for about a year and Kimber has been at it for 2 decades . One would hope they know how to make a good gun after that many years .

He just can't stand the fact that many people are enjoying accurate reliable 1911's without dumping a grand+ from the word go as he has .

If Kimber Dominated as much as he imagines they would be expanding and running other 1911 makers out of business yet not only is it NOT happening they have more competition today then ever before .

Colt , Dan Wesson "now Owned by CZ" , Springfield , Auto Ordnance "now owned by Kahr" , Para Ordnance and all the custom names must all be making respectable profits because they don't seem to be going anywhere and have been joined by Armscor , Daly , Shooters Arms , Firestorm "Once again but this time with a true copy of the 1911" Taurus , Sig and S&W in the 1911 game .

SO much for "Dominating" !

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Old 10-16-2008, 02:30 PM   #33
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Well Boris there isn't much you can do to convince someone like Defender who obviously drinks Kimber Koolaide by the gallon .

Now he wants us to believe he is some kind of forum cop running around verifying negative stories on Kimbers .

He Must have popped for a Raptor or something that couldn't make it through a whole magazine without choking and wants to convince everyone else to fall in the same $1,000 Jam-O-matic trap he did to sooth his ego .

He brags on them being "Light years" ahead of the quality of Taurus when they have only been making 1911's for about a year and Kimber has been at it for 2 decades . One would hope they know how to make a good gun after that many years .

He just can't stand the fact that many people are enjoying accurate reliable 1911's without dumping a grand+ from the word go as he has .

If Kimber Dominated as much as he imagines they would be expanding and running other 1911 makers out of business yet not only is it NOT happening they have more competition today then ever before .

Colt , Dan Wesson "now Owned by CZ" , Springfield , Auto Ordnance "now owned by Kahr" , Para Ordnance and all the custom names must all be making respectable profits because they don't seem to be going anywhere and have been joined by Armscor , Daly , Shooters Arms , Firestorm "Once again but this time with a true copy of the 1911" Taurus , Sig and S&W in the 1911 game .

SO much for "Dominating" !
I've had my Compact II for close to 10 years and butt loads o' rounds and never experienced so much as a hiccup from it. This is what most Kimber owner report as well. I've seen a few dozen in person and never talked to anyone, in person, that has had problems with theirs.

I don't get why so many people have a hard on for them. They're a high quality piece. Most people who bad mouth them want to trow around names of manufacturers who charge less for their pistols, not the high end tuner names. Could the bad mouthing just be out of jealousy?
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Old 10-16-2008, 04:05 PM   #34
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Well Matt you need to go back and reread the previous posts because the facts have obviously slipped your mind .

The Kimber owner "Defender" started the bashing and name calling of various brands .

All I did was state the fact that my Daly has run fine also and is accurate and asked what the extra $500+ was going to get me or anyone else .

As far as what most Kimber owners say , when looking at Kimber guns I have been told by people claiming to have owned them and suggested I buy anything from Colt , Dan Wesson or Springfield before a Kimber due to bad experiences .

Should I assume those people were liars because they don't like your brand of product ?

Quote:
Could the bad mouthing just be out of jealousy?
Yes indeed it could be out of jealousy that people overpaid for their Kimbers and then realized they could have gotten just as good or good enough of quality for hundreds less .

The whole "My gun is better than yours" is right off of the Kindergarten playground don't you think ?

Go ahead and buy whatever you want and pay whatever for it it's your money not mine but don't have the audacity to call mine garbage or junk when you've never even seen it much less shot it , parts don't come flying off or break when I shoot the thing .

After all it's just a gun and If I drill a hole in your head you'll be just as dead as if you did the same to me with you $1,000 Kimber .

The only true statement Defender has made is

Quote:
You can't BS most American gun owners.
Right and if the Taurus , Armscor and other brands were complete junk and garbage as Defender says they are they wouldn't be selling as well as they are in a market as competitive as the 1911 one is .
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:10 PM   #35
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I paid $700 for mine. That puts it in the price realm of the guns of which you speak.

Also, please search my posts and show me where I've bad mouthed anything. I even defend High-points, because I have first hand experience with them. I have no experience with Charles Daly, so I've said nothing negative about them. If you'd like, we can go to the range one of these days and shoot each others' pistols so we can see what the other is talking about when they defend their brand of choice.

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Old 10-16-2008, 06:20 PM   #36
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Kimber graces my hip too in my Milt Sparks holster, but I have the 4" Pro Carry II. VERY happy with it - it was a gift from my wife.

It has the night sights as well.

My next purchase will either be a Kimber of some type (preferably steel frame), or just spend a bit more and a Dan Wesson PM9 (9mm) or Commander Bobtail (CBOB) in .45. As you go up in prices you will find less MIM in the guns, and you will find tighter fit and lower tolerances. Things will be SOLID. When you get into the >1000+ range you are getting a lot of custom parts, hand fitment, and exacting precision in shooting. Match barrels are pretty much standard.

I'd like to keep my purchases below 1000 to keep the wife happy. The CBOB can be found for 900 (even here locally). Kimbers can go from 600-1300 or so depending on model, features, etc. My Pro Carry II was right in the middle. I saw a guy on another thread get a PC II for <400 from a friend - dammit.

I personally have had no issues with my PCII other than my learning handgun shooting (it is my first handgun). From the factory it has worked well. I may not be able to do 1.5" groups at 25 yards, but then again, even if I had a Wilson that guaranteed it, I wouldn't be able to do it. It would shoot better than me right now (which ain't tough). That said, my PC II is a carry piece and I can put all rounds through a silhouette at 25 yards with no problem and it meets my needs now.

I've heard decent things about RIA 1911's, and held a few. They seemed okay, but the fit/finish of the Kimbers just felt better to me. Am I bias? Perhaps, but I felt that way when I was looking too. After owning my Kimber, I held the Dan Wessons and they felt light years more solid than the Kimbers for just a bit more. The RIA's and Tauruses just didn't feel good TO ME.

The beauty of the handgun world is that you can pick the finish, features, etc that YOU want in a price you can afford. Ultimately it will be YOUR call what you pick. We will all recommend what we have most of the time or what we're planning next. That's what I did.

Best of luck in your purchase and enjoy the 1911 world!

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Old 10-17-2008, 02:44 AM   #37
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If it is a 1911 of a decent manufacture then it will shoot and shoot good.

I bought my Kimber because I liked the price and the options that came on it. Mine has never jammed or have any problems that were caused by the firearm. Mine did have a few stoppages from my first run of ammo with my Dillon because I didn't quite get the crimp setting right. MY FAULT NOT THE GUN.

I think people need to stop being richards and just talk.

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Old 10-17-2008, 05:54 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Could the bad mouthing just be out of jealousy?
You hit the nail on the head, Matt.

Pure jealousy on the part of the Kimber-haters.

If they could afford a Kimber, you can bet they'd have one.

Funny, but you never see the Armscor, Taurus, Hi-Point and Kel-Tec pistols winning any high-level matches at the state and national level. In fact, it's a rarity to see anybody in a high-level match even using them.

Go to the IDPA national championships every year, and you'll see Kimber's all over the place. However, you'll see very few, if any, of the garbage guns listed in my previous paragraph.

Serious shooters just don't use garbage guns, because they know they don't perform at as high a level as Kimber and other quality pistols.

You don't see the garbage guns being used by the military and law enforcement either.

LAPD SWAT uses Kimber 1911's
LAPD Special Investigation Section uses Kimber 1911's
U.S. Marine Corps Force Recon uses Kimber 1911's

List of elite military and law enforcement units using the garbage guns:

<Zilch>
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Old 10-17-2008, 06:31 AM   #39
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The only true statement Defender has made is
In your biased and irrelevant opinion.

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Right and if the Taurus , Armscor and other brands were complete junk and garbage as Defender says they are they wouldn't be selling as well as they are in a market as competitive as the 1911 one is .
Actually, Taurus and Armscor are VERY MINOR players in the 1911 market. Kimber DOMINATES them both in sales.

Kimber outsells the garbage guns by at least ten to one, and remember that Kimber costs two to three times as much.

The only reason Taurus and Armscor 1911's sell at all, is because their owners can't afford anything better.

If certain people here get their fragile egos bruised and feelings hurt because I tell the truth about their cheapo guns, so be it.

You don't see me running around trying to convince Lamborghini, Ferrari and Porsche owners that "My sub-$20,000 Chevy is just as good as your car! I've never had any problems with it, therefore it's just as good a car as yours!"

I'd only be fooling myself. I'm a big enough man to admit that my Chevy doesn't match up with a $200,000 luxury sports car.

It's a shame some people aren't big enough, or knowledgeable enough about guns, to admit that their Taurus' and Armscor's just don't match up well with a Kimber.

They're only fooling themselves.
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Old 10-17-2008, 06:51 AM   #40
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All I did was state the fact that my Daly has run fine also and is accurate and asked what the extra $500+ was going to get me or anyone else.
I already explained A MONTH AGO in this very thread, EXACTLY what you get for the extra five hundred bucks.

Since you don't read very well, I'll post it again:

Quote:
Posted by Defender on September 19th:
"...tritium night sights; hand-checkered rosewood grips, two-tone matte black and silver finish; 7075-T7 aluminum frame; slide machined from solid stainless steel and given a non-reflecting satin finish; carry bevel treatment to eliminate sharp edges and corners for an easier and more reliable draw; match grade barrel and chamber; polished breech face; lowered and flared ejection port; beveled magazine well; extended magazine release button; extended ambidextrous thumb safety; and the match grade premium aluminum trigger..."
For the extra five hundred bucks, you get a COMPETITION READY 1911 that will perform FAR better both in competition and self-defense situations, than "bottom of the barrel" guns like a Daly.
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