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Old 11-22-2012, 02:31 PM   #31
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Yeah... in 460 Rowland
Watever boys
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:42 PM   #32
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One of the things I notice so often about these type threads, is the lack of actual first hand experence of the most vocal responders. Theories are fine, but often not backed up by no more than one or two actual experences. I wont take sides but I will give some food for thought. I personally know 13 people who were shot with everything from a 22 lr to 44 magnums. Having been a big game guide for years I have seen hundreds of big game animals shot. On animals, few fall instantly down fom any shot that is not spine or brain hit. Of the 13 people I know that were shot, only 1 collapsed to the shot. Two of the 13 were shot with full house loads with a 44 magnum. Of these two, one got up and called an ambulence for himself, the other showed up for work 12 hours after being hit and driving himself to the doctor. The only instantly downed individual, worked for me and was messing with a married woman, and was shot in the thigh with a 25 ACP. He dropped like a stone in his words. Any brain or spine hit with any caliber will result in an instant incompasitation. I have finished of nearly 100 elk and deer with a 22 handgun. It worked quite well, but ranges were under 10 yards and nearly all were brain shots. Nothing can be learned from that except a 22 handgun will kill an elk when shot in the brain. I have seen little to none of the legendary 'KNOCKDOWN" power. I am a great fan of the 45 ACP and it is my bedside gun, but I have shot a few head of game with this caliber and experence NO reaction at all to the shot. I killed a 90 pound antelope with a 45 ACP and Winchester Silvertips. It took 8 rounds to kill her and she didnt even blink when I hit her in the neck with the last shot. A 25 pound javaline took 2 45 ACP's in the lungs and simply ran away to die 50 yards away. And the terrible killing power of a 12 guage slug was dispelled when I shot a fawn deer that had been injured buy a car. At 3 feet distance I shot her between the eyes with a 12 guage slug. I missed the brain by an inch. She didnt even flinch. Just a smoldering 3/4" hole appeared in her forehead. Just a few experences, you make up own minds.
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:49 PM   #33
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One of the things I notice so often about these type threads, is the lack of actual first hand experence of the most vocal responders. Theories are fine, but often not backed up by no more than one or two actual experences. I wont take sides but I will give some food for thought. I personally know 13 people who were shot with everything from a 22 lr to 44 magnums. Having been a big game guide for years I have seen hundreds of big game animals shot. On animals, few fall instantly down fom any shot that is not spine or brain hit. Of the 13 people I know that were shot, only 1 collapsed to the shot. Two of the 13 were shot with full house loads with a 44 magnum. Of these two, one got up and called an ambulence for himself, the other showed up for work 12 hours after being hit and driving himself to the doctor. The only instantly downed individual, worked for me and was messing with a married woman, and was shot in the thigh with a 25 ACP. He dropped like a stone in his words. Any brain or spine hit with any caliber will result in an instant incompasitation. I have finished of nearly 100 elk and deer with a 22 handgun. It worked quite well, but ranges were under 10 yards and nearly all were brain shots. Nothing can be learned from that except a 22 handgun will kill an elk when shot in the brain. I have seen little to none of the legendary 'KNOCKDOWN" power. I am a great fan of the 45 ACP and it is my bedside gun, but I have shot a few head of game with this caliber and experence NO reaction at all to the shot. I killed a 90 pound antelope with a 45 ACP and Winchester Silvertips. It took 8 rounds to kill her and she didnt even blink when I hit her in the neck with the last shot. A 25 pound javaline took 2 45 ACP's in the lungs and simply ran away to die 50 yards away. And the terrible killing power of a 12 guage slug was dispelled when I shot a fawn deer that had been injured buy a car. At 3 feet distance I shot her between the eyes with a 12 guage slug. I missed the brain by an inch. She didnt even flinch. Just a smoldering 3/4" hole appeared in her forehead. Just a few experences, you make up own minds.
And we're supposed to just take it on faith that all thats 1st hand fact
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:16 PM   #34
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And we're supposed to just take it on faith that all thats 1st hand fact
What a elegent way of MAYBE calling a guy a blowhard. The problem with many experences is poor observations or lack of witnesses. The deer shot with a 12 guage slug was witnessed by my brother and a Colorado game warden. The finishing off of wounded animals were often but not always witnessed by the client. I will for privacy sakes not name the individuals I know that have been shot. I hope the police officer that shot himself in the kneecap with a 45ACP will help me out here. He occasionally haunts these forums.
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:20 PM   #35
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What a elegent way of MAYBE calling a guy a blowhard. The problem with many experences is poor observations or lack of witnesses. The deer shot with a 12 guage slug was witnessed by my brother and a Colorado game warden. The finishing off of wounded animals were often but not always witnessed by the client. I will for privacy sakes not name the individuals I know that have been shot. I hope the police officer that shot himself in the kneecap with a 45ACP will help me out here. He occasionally haunts these forums.
Don't take it personaly (or do- up to you)
Just sayin this is the internet---Hell, nobody even uses their real name
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:37 PM   #36
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This topic comes around now and then and I've read several threads, but I just thought of a new way to think about it that makes sense.

I've read enough threads and done some calculations, to say that a 45 acp has knockdown power similar to an 80 mph fastball... which isn't that much "knockdown power". Knockdown power is generally a myth.

The new way to think about it though is "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". If you fire a weapon that knocks you back on your butt, then yes, that probably has some real "knockdown power". But that's going to be something like an elephant gun, that is hard to manhandle the kickback.

Just thought I'd share. Knockdown power makes more sense to me thinking about it that way. Cheers!
Correct you are. "Knockdown power" is a myth!
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:51 PM   #37
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I think it's funny when people try to discredit a round. I personally don't question the ability of any round to do lethal damage, .22LR, 9mm, .357sig, 12ga buckshot, 30-06... They all have the ability to kill you.

I would feel armed and able to protect myself if I was carrying a .22LR LCR in my pocket or a fullsize .45ACP 1911. As long as you're proficient and skilled with the weapon you're using, you'll be able to use it accordingly.
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:56 PM   #38
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I think it's funny when people try to discredit a round. I personally don't question the ability of any round to do lethal damage, .22LR, 9mm, .357sig, 12ga buckshot, 30-06... They all have the ability to kill you.

I would feel armed and able to protect myself if I was carrying a .22LR LCR in my pocket or a fullsize .45ACP 1911. As long as you're proficient and skilled with the weapon you're using, you'll be able to use it accordingly.
Those of us who 'have been there, saw that, done that, AND have the scars to prove it' deal in probability, not possibility!
Nuff said!
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:30 PM   #39
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Knock down power isnt the ability to take someone off of there feet. It is the ability to cause so much damage that the body shuts down and the person shot is unable to continue the aggression. I can shot you with a .22 and kill you but while I am waiting on you to die you can in turn kill me.
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:51 PM   #40
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Knock down power isnt the ability to take someone off of there feet. It is the ability to cause so much damage that the body shuts down and the person shot is unable to continue the aggression. I can shot you with a .22 and kill you but while I am waiting on you to die you can in turn kill me.
the terminology used for what you're describing is "stopping power"
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