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Old 06-24-2014, 03:21 AM   #21
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What are we debating here? That getting shot by buckshot from a shotgun sucks worse than getting holes poked in you by a 9mm? That it's a bigger shock to your system? Seems obvious to me.


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Old 06-24-2014, 03:43 AM   #22
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There was a post a while back about a guy in NYC that got shot and took the gun away and shot the guy that shot him. Then NYC's finest showed up and shot the victim 20 more times and he survived. Shoot first and ask questions later or is that kill them all and let God sort them out?

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Old 06-24-2014, 10:42 PM   #23
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None of us KNOW anything until we experience it first hand.

That doesn't mean we need to be shot, not even the one shooting, but without seeing with ones own eyes for ones own self all we have is cheap talk based on even cheaper, misrepresented and ill-conceived statistics; glorified scuttlebutt.

You want to know if shock exists, go find out, until then stop perpetuating the ignorance that already surrounds and abounds in the world of firearms.

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Old 06-25-2014, 08:58 AM   #24
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Beyond: I wonder how much "first hand" experience YOU have? Sadly I have experienced it( burns worse then it hurts really). I thought I was stuck with a poker at around 450 degrees of heat.....but I digress. I love everyone throwing tables out on this Thread, well, an AK-74 round in your back is no fun folks,... No fun at All. Nor is the "in and out" of the round passing through my thigh.,...,


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Old 06-25-2014, 10:27 AM   #25
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Beyond: I wonder how much "first hand" experience YOU have? Sadly I have experienced it( burns worse then it hurts really). I thought I was stuck with a poker at around 450 degrees of heat.....but I digress. I love everyone throwing tables out on this Thread, well, an AK-74 round in your back is no fun folks,... No fun at All. Nor is the "in and out" of the round passing through my thigh.,...,


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Ive been watching this thread thinking a bit of what you said from the start Doc! This isnt about shock and Awe, its about living to breath another day and stopping someone who doesnt care if you breath another day from accomplishing what they set out to do.

Big holes or little holes in humans are shocking to just about all of them, big ones maybe a little quicker at maximizing the effect but once the blood starts leaking out, your probably not in the same mode you were seconds before that as perp or vic.

The movies dont do justice to what any piece of foreign material piercing a body at a speed faster than sound does in nearly any situation. One dead squirrel and a groundhog in the last 48 hours at my house will tell you my little Ithaca single shot saddle gun with a 22LR was the worst thing they ever met just before they passed on.

If I lived in a place where I felt the need to pack heat, I would be more concerned about the total package than the size of the bullet I was tossing. Situational awareness has saved more people than big bullets ever have. The Army taught me that escape and evade, cover and concealment were all much more important than laying down or returning fire on an Objective.

Big Guns and big bullets are nice but if your wife cant or wont handle them, a 22 semi might be the best friend she could ever have when your not there to pull out your dirty harry 14" revolver. Better yet, showing her the all the means and methods of reacting to a threat with and without a peashooter is prolly gonna be more valuable to her than becoming a sharpshooter with a 357 mag that wont likely fit in her handbag!

Shock and awe is a great tv phrase but life aint TV, its life and death, no second chances or do-overs for failing to survive!
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFootball View Post
Beyond: I wonder how much "first hand" experience YOU have? Sadly I have experienced it( burns worse then it hurts really). I thought I was stuck with a poker at around 450 degrees of heat.....but I digress. I love everyone throwing tables out on this Thread, well, an AK-74 round in your back is no fun folks,... No fun at All. Nor is the "in and out" of the round passing through my thigh.,...,


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Zero

Thankfully, hope it remains so.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFootball View Post
Beyond: I wonder how much "first hand" experience YOU have? Sadly I have experienced it( burns worse then it hurts really). I thought I was stuck with a poker at around 450 degrees of heat.....but I digress. I love everyone throwing tables out on this Thread, well, an AK-74 round in your back is no fun folks,... No fun at All. Nor is the "in and out" of the round passing through my thigh.,...,


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in all fairness to BTB on this, most of what people think on this subject is speculation, and you are the exception as i'm sure there are other members here with your same experiances. but for the majority, myself included, we can only truly speculate at what it feels like to be shot or the effects of the damage on the human body.

people mention ballistic gelatin being one test medium. some mention using a side of a cow or hog as a test medium. reality is, none of that is living and breathing human being. many us can only reference maybe the effects of what bullets do from hunting experiances, and even that is still specualting to some degree, as Bambi is not a 6' 4", 250 lbs. of drug induced attacker trying liberate a person form their valuables or their life.

in what i think, is this, that there are too many variables that come into play, such as caliber used, the state and condition of the attacker, number of shots hitting the attacker and location of those hits, that will determine the outcome.

my advice and suggestion has been and will be, carry or use the largest caliber a person can shoot accurately and consistently. shot placement trumps caliber, but nothing is a gaurantee in this world.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:22 PM   #28
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Zero

Thankfully, hope it remains so.

At least you got some good training. Carry on Soldier...


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Old 06-25-2014, 08:18 PM   #29
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What are we debating here? That getting shot by buckshot from a shotgun sucks worse than getting holes poked in you by a 9mm? That it's a bigger shock to your system? Seems obvious to me.


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Not so. The initial 'impact' would be more over a short period of time, but the wounds caused by 9 rounds of good defense 9mm bullets would be MUCH worse than the wounds caused by 9 round lead pellets. The 'impact' of the buck shot will not 'knock down' the person thus the rapid placement of the 9 handgun rounds would be MUCH more damaging than the single hit with the buck shot. Add to this the fact you have more 'control' of where exactly the handgun bullets go and you have no control of exactly where the buck shot will 'pattern', the 'real' damage (wounding) caused by the hand gun would, in all reality, be considerably greater than the damage (wounding) caused by a single shot of buck shot. (Standard 9 pellet OO buck).
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Old 06-28-2014, 06:15 AM   #30
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Shoot a groundhog in the belly inside of 200 yards with a .220 Swift running a decent 50-55 gr varmint bullet and tell me it doesn't have hydrostatic shock.

BTW, I thought the threshold for such was 2K FPS.

Bullet design is a big factor in how energy is transferred. That which is available isn't always used.

Big slow bullets let a lot of air and blood out, trash stuff too. One doesn't need hydrostatic shock to kill.

But killing quickly usually means tearing up as much stuff as you can, as fast as you can.

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