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Old 02-23-2013, 04:55 PM   #71
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The 'laws' (anti-gun) which are on the books in almost all jurisdictions in this country are the result of ' unchecked prejudice' which 'we' have allowed to accumulate over MANY years (the slippery slope). Those who passed these laws and now support/enforce them are of the same mind set and thought process as those whom we have branded as 'evil' (KKK and other hate groups)! They are the 'elites' and think they are better than we are and they are the ones who should 'control' us. No different than any other 'laws' passed to discriminate and violate the right of those they wish to control!
Just common scene if you look at this with a realistic logical perspective.

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Old 02-24-2013, 01:35 PM   #72
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Tell that to Rosa Parks and those in Alabama who did this!!!
Rosa Parks was arrested and convicted for civil disobedience. When you add in the likely firearm charge associated with your idea, I doubt you will have many volunteers. Hey, if it's such a great idea, why don't you do it? We can start a thread about it.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:09 PM   #73
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Getting back ON TOPIC, if you give credibility to ballistic charts, you need to research and study all of them, and find out what exactly they measure and how they measure it.

When a type writer jockey in a gun rag says my "old timer" is proven and it's better than your newfangled "eargeschplitten loudenboomer" I want to ask:

Better in what way???? And exactly how did you test both of them to make that determination.

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Old 02-24-2013, 10:39 PM   #74
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Rosa Parks was arrested and convicted for civil disobedience. When you add in the likely firearm charge associated with your idea, I doubt you will have many volunteers. Hey, if it's such a great idea, why don't you do it? We can start a thread about it.
I went one step further. As a LEO I refused to arrest those who were simply 'armed' in violation of the directive from our Chief who ordered us to physically arrest, require a bond, and confiscate the firearm on ALL firearms related offenses. This was an 'internal' memo and I made it public, which caused a lot of support for me and caused him some problems. It took me about 18 month of of a legal and internal HR battles but I kept my job and did finally retire. If we are all to afraid to stand up for what is right what is use of living!!! It is a matter of personal integrity.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:37 AM   #75
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I'll give you two very recent examples the the SCOTUS has ruled in favor of the law while in the ruling admitting that the "law" was unconstitutional.

First is the ruling that the border patrol has the authority to stop ANYONE without cause and search them their vehicles possessions to include going into their computers as long as you are within 100 miles of the border.

Second, the ruling on "Obamacare" While justice Stevens specifically says it is not his job to protect the American people from their voting decisions and sides with Obamacare. All the while admitting that it is in fact unconstitutional. Umm, correct me if I'm wrong gentlemen but, that is his ONLY job. SCOTUS is supposed to stand between the people and the govt to stop govt over reach.

Still think THIS is the govt our founders intended!? If you do then we have nothing to discuss. Simply because the congress votes laws and the supreme court upholds does NOT mean that WE THE PEOPLE have any duty to live by them. WE are the ultimate keepers of the constitution.

Or would you go so far as to condemn the founders of this great nation as traitors simply because they cast off the bonds of their tyrannical govt? It was, at the time, OUR govt the founders were fighting against. Do you think for a second that if Britain had won that history would not have vilified the founders as traitors?

That's a nice bubble you live in there locutus. Hope no one pops it.
I really don't want to fan the flames of this fight but, I do have a couple questions about your examples...

1. I'm unfamiliar with this supposed Border Patrol ruling. Could you post some reference to it? I have seen some pretty hilarious videos posted on YouTube where individuals refuse to show ID or to consent to any search. They are funny because the BP agents just sort of sit there dumbfounded not knowing what to do next. It would seem that there is more (or less) to your example than meets the eye.

2. Having read the entire text of the SCOTUS opinion (both the majority opinion and the dissent) I can tell you that what you have posted is absolutely not what was written. The ruling specifies that the law IS constitutional because the law's "penalties" are taxes, despite the clever attempt to disguise them with different words. Justices Stevens states that it is not the purpose of the Court to decide the value or the relative merits of any given law, just the constitutionality of it. Thus he tells us that Obamacare may truly be a bad law, but that's not at issue.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:15 AM   #76
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I did some searching and found the Border Patrol ruling you mention. (United States vs. Martinez-Fuerte)

The ruling allows the creation and operation of checkpoints for the purposes of interdicting drug smuggling and illegal alien crossings and permits the brief questioning of motorists passing through. It does not authorize (in fact it expressly forbids) any additional search or detaining unless the agents can show probable cause. The ruling wasn't even close; 7 to 2.

Even in my State of Wyoming which is no where near any national border, law enforcement operates mandatory checkpoints; most often to check for illegally taken game animals. Even if you aren't a hunter, you still have to stop.

The 4th amendment protects from unreasonable searches, not from all law enforcement interaction. Seems to me, if we're serious about combating illegals and drugs, we've got to give our boys at least some tools to work with.

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Old 02-26-2013, 02:12 PM   #77
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I did some searching and found the Border Patrol ruling you mention. (United States vs. Martinez-Fuerte)

The ruling allows the creation and operation of checkpoints for the purposes of interdicting drug smuggling and illegal alien crossings and permits the brief questioning of motorists passing through. It does not authorize (in fact it expressly forbids) any additional search or detaining unless the agents can show probable cause. The ruling wasn't even close; 7 to 2.

Even in my State of Wyoming which is no where near any national border, law enforcement operates mandatory checkpoints; most often to check for illegally taken game animals. Even if you aren't a hunter, you still have to stop.

The 4th amendment protects from unreasonable searches, not from all law enforcement interaction. Seems to me, if we're serious about combating illegals and drugs, we've got to give our boys at least some tools to work with.
Why is that exactly? Last i looked we are getting creamed in the drug "war". Illegals flood across our borders and where are the border patrol? Up to and beyond 100 miles inland where the illegal traffic becomes part of everyday traffic. Catching illegals anywhere more than 10 miles this side of the border is generally done by real law enforcement who then calls the border patrol to pick them up. Most of the time BP stops someone that you see, they end up harassing and detaining US citizens for no other reason than they have a badge. The "tools" you speak of generally wear green and as with ALL law enforcement there are those who will abuse their power and therein lies the problem.
BTW this is not speculative, my brother in law is a sheriffs deputy on the border. Sad thing? The border patrol knows of a large illegal settlement in the chiracahua national monument that they won't go in and clear out for fear of the armaments those illegals have. Now I ask if not to handle things like this why do we need a federal agency that does this poor a job?
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:21 PM   #78
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Uhhhhh...... border Patrol reallly are real law enforcement.

If we are to live in a civilized society, we must have provisions for enforcing law and order.

Again the 4A protects against UNREASONABLE search.

Normal police procedures to cstch illegals, interdict drugs, etc are not unreasonable unless you're an anarchist.

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Old 02-26-2013, 08:53 PM   #79
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Uhhhhh...... border Patrol reallly are real law enforcement.

If we are to live in a civilized society, we must have provisions for enforcing law and order.

Again the 4A protects against UNREASONABLE search.

Normal police procedures to cstch illegals, interdict drugs, etc are not unreasonable unless you're an anarchist.
If they are REAL law enforcement as you say. Why don't they have POLICE powers? They are federal agents and as such, cannot enforce state law. Don't believe me? Ask any cop or sheriff what they think of BP. Most don't even want them as backup because of their poor understanding of what law enforcements role is. They create a liability for REAL law enforcement.

Here is a link which serves to illustrate the absurdity of the Border Patrol.
ANY american who chooses to take a stand can and usually will defeat the training of especially the border patrol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eUHfyPylVL8
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:13 PM   #80
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As someone with 20+ years of REAL law enforcement, I call B.S. Every "REAL" officer I know has a great deal of respect for Border Patrol officers.

You need to study the definitions of jurisdictions.

Is a city police officer not a "real" law enforcement officer if he is not allowed to enforce game and fish laws???

Federal officers cannot enforce state laws because of state, not federal, sovereignty. In my state, sheriff's deputies cannot enforce city ordnances. Are deputies not "REAL" LE????

REAL cops, i.e. local police and sheriff cannot arrest and charge illegal aliens. They can only detain them pending arrival of federal officers.

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