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Old 02-19-2013, 03:56 AM   #51
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Getting shot is getting shot. If you are trying to attack someone and they shoot you and suddenly there's a hole in you thats not supposed to be there then you would definitely reconsider what you were doing. But if your looking to absolutely stop someone a .500 S&W is an option. Although, some people may give you some funny looks because you have a giant bulge in your pants :-) haha

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Old 02-19-2013, 10:14 AM   #52
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1: have a gun with you at all times
2: have a gun that is 100% reliable as possible
3: know your use of force laws
4: practice with your gun at a shooting range at realistic self defense distance (7 yards or less)
5: have a cellphone capable of dialing 911 even if its a cheap prepaid or one with no paid service but still able to dial 911 be sure it is capable of allowing tracking by 911 if you cant talk.
I have so many concerns with some of those statements I don't know where to start. I guess I'll go in order.

1. Great advice, but not always practical or legal. Today alone I will be going to three different places that the law forbids me to carry in as a civilian. One of them doesn't even allow me to carry on the grounds.

2. 100% reliable as possible? It is, or it isn't. Whatever you carry should be 100% reliable barring unforeseen mechanical failure of the firearm. Your ammo should meet the same standards. I'm not going to get into the revolver/pistol debate because it doesn't apply. You can find 100% reliability in either one.

3. Good advice. Know them forwards and backwards.

4. Any range that doesn't allow you to draw from concealment is a worthless range. Any range that doesn't allow snap shots is a worthless range. Any range that doesn't allow rapid fire is a worthless range. These ranges will not give you the skills needed in a self-defense situation. If you're serious about defending yourself, and your range doesn't allow practicing realistic scenarios, get some kind of laser for your carry weapon and practice with the unloaded weapon at home. Tape up some numbered targets and have someone call out the target number when you least expect it. Draw from concealment and bring the laser on target. NEVER practice with a laser in front of a mirror.

As far as the 7 yards requirement goes, I roughly double that distance. Being very good at 15 yards makes me much more likely to hit well at 7 yards when adrenalin kicks in. I also take into consideration that the 7 yards number was adopted back in the olden days when the only stats they gathered were for law enforcement shootings. YMMV in the civilian world.

5. Good advice, but not absolute. Most cell phone companies can't get down tight enough to locate you within a useful distance. Many municipalities don't even have enhanced 911. The more urban areas are better than rural, but still not absolute. It's very good advice, but don't depend on it to save you.

Here's one you missed. Carry the same gun with the same ammo in the same location every single time. If your summer clothing limits what you can carry, that should be the same gun you carry year round. It should be the only gun you practice self-defense shooting with.

I'm sure you've heard the saying, "When seconds count, police are only minutes away." and it is a realistic statement. The problem comes in with the seconds counting part of it. Wasting time fumbling around trying to figure out what you're carrying, where you're carrying it, how to draw it, and how much recoil you will have to fight for your second shot can get you dead. Statistics also show that the first person to get a shot off usually wins the fight. The funny part is that in many cases it doesn't matter whether you hit the target or not, as long as you don't hit yourself.

I'm going to address purse carry for a minute. In my opinion it is less than desirable, but it may be the best solution for many women. Go back to the same gun, same place statement. If you can't do this on your body with every type of clothing you might possibly wear, purse carry is for you. Get a dedicated carry purse with a separate compartment for your weapon. Yes, I expect to get some heat on this one. Watch the YouTube video with the girl discussing various carry methods for different outfits, then tell me she is prepared to defend herself when seconds count. She'll darn near have to give herself a strip search in order to find her sidearm.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:18 AM   #53
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Damn good post, Doc. Lots of wisdom there.

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Old 02-20-2013, 02:33 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by TheDesertFox View Post
Getting shot is getting shot. If you are trying to attack someone and they shoot you and suddenly there's a hole in you thats not supposed to be there then you would definitely reconsider what you were doing. But if your looking to absolutely stop someone a .500 S&W is an option. Although, some people may give you some funny looks because you have a giant bulge in your pants :-) haha
Short of a central nervous system hit there is no such thing as 'absolute stop someone' with any hand gun!
The 500 is made for 'large' heavy game. Most 500 bullets would cause less of a wound to a human than a much smaller caliber with the 'right' bullet!
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:42 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Doc3402 View Post
I have so many concerns with some of those statements I don't know where to start. I guess I'll go in order.

1. Great advice, but not always practical or legal. Today alone I will be going to three different places that the law forbids me to carry in as a civilian. One of them doesn't even allow me to carry on the grounds.

2. 100% reliable as possible? It is, or it isn't. Whatever you carry should be 100% reliable barring unforeseen mechanical failure of the firearm. Your ammo should meet the same standards. I'm not going to get into the revolver/pistol debate because it doesn't apply. You can find 100% reliability in either one.

3. Good advice. Know them forwards and backwards.

4. Any range that doesn't allow you to draw from concealment is a worthless range. Any range that doesn't allow snap shots is a worthless range. Any range that doesn't allow rapid fire is a worthless range. These ranges will not give you the skills needed in a self-defense situation. If you're serious about defending yourself, and your range doesn't allow practicing realistic scenarios, get some kind of laser for your carry weapon and practice with the unloaded weapon at home. Tape up some numbered targets and have someone call out the target number when you least expect it. Draw from concealment and bring the laser on target. NEVER practice with a laser in front of a mirror.

As far as the 7 yards requirement goes, I roughly double that distance. Being very good at 15 yards makes me much more likely to hit well at 7 yards when adrenalin kicks in. I also take into consideration that the 7 yards number was adopted back in the olden days when the only stats they gathered were for law enforcement shootings. YMMV in the civilian world.

5. Good advice, but not absolute. Most cell phone companies can't get down tight enough to locate you within a useful distance. Many municipalities don't even have enhanced 911. The more urban areas are better than rural, but still not absolute. It's very good advice, but don't depend on it to save you.

Here's one you missed. Carry the same gun with the same ammo in the same location every single time. If your summer clothing limits what you can carry, that should be the same gun you carry year round. It should be the only gun you practice self-defense shooting with.

I'm sure you've heard the saying, "When seconds count, police are only minutes away." and it is a realistic statement. The problem comes in with the seconds counting part of it. Wasting time fumbling around trying to figure out what you're carrying, where you're carrying it, how to draw it, and how much recoil you will have to fight for your second shot can get you dead. Statistics also show that the first person to get a shot off usually wins the fight. The funny part is that in many cases it doesn't matter whether you hit the target or not, as long as you don't hit yourself.

I'm going to address purse carry for a minute. In my opinion it is less than desirable, but it may be the best solution for many women. Go back to the same gun, same place statement. If you can't do this on your body with every type of clothing you might possibly wear, purse carry is for you. Get a dedicated carry purse with a separate compartment for your weapon. Yes, I expect to get some heat on this one. Watch the YouTube video with the girl discussing various carry methods for different outfits, then tell me she is prepared to defend herself when seconds count. She'll darn near have to give herself a strip search in order to find her sidearm.
1. I guess you are going to keep 'going to the back of the bus'!
2. Correct, but I think you get the point!
3. Stop going to the back of the bus! Civil disobedience is the only way to challenge these unconstitutional laws.
4. Correct you are. You will do as you train, train realistically!
5. Correct! Be self reliant!
I agree about your 'same' gun, ammo, and place, but this is not always possible. See #4.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:50 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by JimRau View Post
1. I guess you are going to keep 'going to the back of the bus'!
2. Correct, but I think you get the point!
3. Stop going to the back of the bus! Civil disobedience is the only way to challenge these unconstitutional laws.
4. Correct you are. You will do as you train, train realistically!
5. Correct! Be self reliant!
I agree about your 'same' gun, ammo, and place, but this is not always possible. See #4.
I flat out refuse to practice civil disobedience when it involves breaking the law. My civil rights are too important to me, and I'm not talking about just my gun rights.

As for your back of the bus comments, I find them offensive and racist in nature. There are so many other ways you could have chosen to voice your concerns, yet you chose that one. Shame on you.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:56 AM   #57
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Thanks, Shouldazagged

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Old 02-20-2013, 04:35 PM   #58
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I flat out refuse to practice civil disobedience when it involves breaking the law. My civil rights are too important to me, and I'm not talking about just my gun rights.

As for your back of the bus comments, I find them offensive and racist in nature. There are so many other ways you could have chosen to voice your concerns, yet you chose that one. Shame on you.
Sorry to hear that because I am in the process of getting a "Rosa Parks" movement started! We as gun owners are being discriminated against in the same way as 'people of color' were in the south by the 'Jim Crow Laws' and we must do the same as Rosa Parks did and 'refuse to go to the back of the bus' when it comes to all of these TOTALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL local, state, and federal anti-gun laws !!
You said "My civil rights are too important to me", but then in the same breath say you refuse to defend them!!!!
You are typical of those who have allowed and supported the anti-gun people by your inaction and excepting 'their' laws!!!

NO SHAME ON YOU!
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:21 PM   #59
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30 percent of the people support gun rights.

20 percent do not.

50 percent don't give a rat's ass one way or the other.

IUf we start showing up at rallies waving guns around, most of that 50 percent will support their aside, and not our side.

I feel the same frustration that you do. But shooting ourselves in the foot by acting stupid is not the answer.

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Old 02-21-2013, 01:51 AM   #60
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I did not say anything about 'waving guns around'. WE, as a group need to show up in mass in locations where we are told we are not allowed to be armed and let them arrest us in mass. If we flood the 'system' and get attention like the 'progressives' do the laws will change. We need to see that we and all the 'pro gun organizations' support, emotionally and financially, those who find themselves 'arrested' when they have done nothing wrong!!!

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