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Old 02-14-2013, 01:40 PM   #41
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You are all correct. Thus we have to come to a median. I personally will not carry anything smaller than a 38 sp/9mm!
I have first hand knowledge of shooting where small caliber handguns (22, 25, 380) were used and the target was hit multiple times and it did not even slow him down!!!
I would prefer an edged weapon over a small caliber hand gun in these cases. Thus my decision to use a hand gun which increases my probability of survival. And you are correct when you say there is no reason why a person, in general, can not shoot a 'larger' caliber hand gun as well as a 'smaller' caliber hand gun. I can shoot a 38/9 as well as I can a 22/25, if not better. I would not go so far as to say that about a 44 Mag!
If you are going to 'carry', I suggest you 'bring enough gun'!

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Old 02-15-2013, 04:43 PM   #42
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Jim, I would also point put that I have first hand knowledge of goblins shot multiple times with .45 ACP that didn't slow down.

I com;pletely agree that a larger caliber is usually better, but when my 9MM is not practical to carry, I'll take the little .25 Beretta over a knife any day.

Pulling a knife on someone may very well cause them to try to kill you. I know I feel that way. When I see a knife, I no longer the subject human, so killing it is like stepping on a cockroach.

Usually
a gun, ANY GUN, will stop the fight without firing a shot.

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Old 02-15-2013, 06:47 PM   #43
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Jim, I would also point put that I have first hand knowledge of goblins shot multiple times with .45 ACP that didn't slow down.

I com;pletely agree that a larger caliber is usually better, but when my 9MM is not practical to carry, I'll take the little .25 Beretta over a knife any day.

Pulling a knife on someone may very well cause them to try to kill you. I know I feel that way. When I see a knife, I no longer the subject human, so killing it is like stepping on a cockroach.

Usually
a gun, ANY GUN, will stop the fight without firing a shot.
I am aware the 45 is not what it is believed to be as well (first hand)!
BUT
You are now venturing into the land of 'possibility' which will get you lost and dead!
Stay in the land of 'probability' and you will not get lost and will live!
It would appear you missed the point I made about the edged weapon. If you are in a life or death situation (self defense) and it is 'up close and personal', the edged weapon is many times a 'better' choice than the 'little' 22, 25, or 380!

True, in most cases, the psychological use of the PPD will stop the fight or prevent it.

If I would have shot everyone I pointed a gun at in my life there would be A LOT less people on this earth!!!
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:38 PM   #44
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[QUOTE=JimRau;1138970

If I would have shot everyone I pointed a gun at in my life there would be A LOT less people on this earth!!![/QUOTE]

Isn't that the truth!

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Old 02-15-2013, 11:25 PM   #45
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I admit to being an old throwback, but my physical limitations and life circumstances dictate a small, totally reliable, easily concealed EDC with recoil I can easily control with arthritic hands. My choice is a J-frame Smith 640 in .38 Special loaded with the +P 158 grain LSWCHP (Remington for choice).

The ammo choice was made after a lot of research and discussions with professionals including LEO's. I read the ballistic data about various loads, but also a lot of case histories of actual shootings and tests by guys like Mas Ayoob. It was the selection with which made the most sense to me given my age and circumstances. So I guess I'm not so much a numbers cruncher as a seeker of a gun-and-ammo combination with which I feel confident and comfortable.

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Old 02-18-2013, 03:53 PM   #46
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I admit to being an old throwback, but my physical limitations and life circumstances dictate a small, totally reliable, easily concealed EDC with recoil I can easily control with arthritic hands. My choice is a J-frame Smith 640 in .38 Special loaded with the +P 158 grain LSWCHP (Remington for choice).

The ammo choice was made after a lot of research and discussions with professionals including LEO's. I read the ballistic data about various loads, but also a lot of case histories of actual shootings and tests by guys like Mas Ayoob. It was the selection with which made the most sense to me given my age and circumstances. So I guess I'm not so much a numbers cruncher as a seeker of a gun-and-ammo combination with which I feel confident and comfortable.
That load is still a very good load even though the FBI would not agree!
Is an 'EDC' the same as a PPD????
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:59 PM   #47
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I think the point that's trying to be made can be found here, at the 17:01 mark. It only takes a minute to watch. You'll see a what happens when a .40 HP hits center mass. The debate is finding the right caliber/grain/jacket to not over or under penetrate. What's not answered in the video is what the person was wearing - heavy winter coat or a t-shirt, so we don't know what the velocity was at the time of impact.

http://youtu.be/tku8YI68-JA?t=17m1s

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Old 02-18-2013, 09:12 PM   #48
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The video is a good one for Medical First Responders, but not much else!

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Old 02-18-2013, 11:52 PM   #49
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Quote:
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That load is still a very good load even though the FBI would not agree!
Is an 'EDC' the same as a PPD????
I didn't know that! I always called it the "Metro" load, but I knew several feds that referred to it as the "FBI" load.

IMHO, it's still the best snub nose load available.

Yep. EDC=Every Day Carry
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:55 PM   #50
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The "6 of every 7 people shot with handguns survive regardless of caliber" stat is the one that got me thinking. That number is closer to 7 or 8 in 10 die when shot with a rifle regardless of round.
Which means because of the trauma caused by smaller yet faster rounds, speed becomes more important than weight. The wound channel/damage is higher at higher velocities not from larger bullets. Hence the switch to lighter much faster ammo.
The science works, as do the qualitative statistics. You can offer conjecture about shot placement and clothing cover all you want. It won't change the science that faster velocities do more damage after impact. Oh and the fact that human skin is worth 4"of ballistic gel according to the good doctor.

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