How much do u invest in ballistics numbers? - Page 2
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:12 PM   #11
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After reading some of these posts, I remembered Jeff Cooper's old axiom for a minimum combat round:

".40-200-1000" That is, a minimum of .40 caliber, 200 gr. bullet weight at 1000 fps velocity.

Still seems pretty good formula to me.

Bob Wright

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Old 02-04-2013, 11:15 PM   #12
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After reading some of these posts, I remembered Jeff Cooper's old axiom for a minimum combat round:

".40-200-1000" That is, a minimum of .40 caliber, 200 gr. bullet weight at 1000 fps velocity.

Still seems pretty good formula to me.

Bob Wright
That was a good system when lead bullets were the only bullets available. Pretty much meaningless with modern ammunition.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:56 AM   #13
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That was a good system when lead bullets were the only bullets available. Pretty much meaningless with modern ammunition.
Modern ammunition was available when he formulated that!

Bob Wright
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:32 PM   #14
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Modern ammunition was available when he formulated that!

Bob Wright
True, but he was old school, as I use to be, and he did not consider expansion!!!
With the best modern defense ammo the 9,40,45 are realistically equal in terminal performance on a human target!
First you MUST have immediate access to your PPD, and
Second you MUST be able to place your shots where they need to go.

If you don't have it with you and/or can't hit what you are shooting at the biggest, baddest gun/caliber is irrelevant!!
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:48 AM   #15
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The question was, in effect, "How do you select your ammunition?" or do you crunch the numbers or what?

I'll trust the ".40-200-1000" criteria.

Bob Wright

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Old 02-06-2013, 04:39 PM   #16
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The question was, in effect, "How do you select your ammunition?" or do you crunch the numbers or what?

I'll trust the ".40-200-1000" criteria.

Bob Wright

And I'll trust 9MM/115/1350
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:09 PM   #17
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And I'll trust 9MM/115/1350
Most people get hung up on the platform which launches to projectile, not the projectile.
A .355/.357 dia. bullet, 115 to 135 gr, MV 1250 to 1400 fps is 357 magnum ballistics.

When the 9mm +p+ loads came available they changed the 9mm, standard pressure load, from a 38+p to a high capacity 357 magnum!
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:15 PM   #18
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I used to think as most of you do. Now I look for velocity over all else. The reason for that is the video at the end of this post. It's 30 minutes long and full of facts from a trauma surgeon who had seen first hand the lack of killing potential of almost every caliber of handguns. Opened my eyes.
I am currently seeking to switch all of my carry ammo to the new halo point round because of the rifle-like velocity. Initially made me want to switch to the FN 5.7 but with the ability to get those velocities from my standard handgun, the halo point ammo will work. Yes it is long and technical but, if it doesn't at least make you think about why the military only sees pistols as a backup weapon I will be disappointed. 30 minutes that will explain my point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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Old 02-07-2013, 06:23 PM   #19
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I used to think as most of you do. Now I look for velocity over all else. The reason for that is the video at the end of this post. It's 30 minutes long and full of facts from a trauma surgeon who had seen first hand the lack of killing potential of almost every caliber of handguns. Opened my eyes.
I am currently seeking to switch all of my carry ammo to the new halo point round because of the rifle-like velocity. Initially made me want to switch to the FN 5.7 but with the ability to get those velocities from my standard handgun, the halo point ammo will work. Yes it is long and technical but, if it doesn't at least make you think about why the military only sees pistols as a backup weapon I will be disappointed. 30 minutes that will explain my point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Easy to achieve those numbers when the bullet is almost a 3rd the weight of standard. You don't feel like you're losing stopping power when a your halo point 9mm weighs the exact same as an FMJ .25acp?

Not worried about over penetration? Because I would be, extremely so!
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:33 PM   #20
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Eau to achieve those numbers when the bullet is almost a 3rd the weight of standard. You don't feel like you're losing stopping power when a your halo point 9mm weighs the exact same as an FMJ .25acp?
You didn't watch the video. Until you do you have no basis to understand my thought process. If science over opinion does not sway your opinion then there is no hope for changing your mind. Or expecting you to understand my point of view. In which no point in discussing this.

Under penetration is the problem with most handgun rounds.
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