home protection - Page 9
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > General Handgun Discussion > home protection

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-28-2013, 11:57 PM   #81
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: The Free State of Winston, AL
Posts: 3,060
Liked 1978 Times on 1171 Posts
Likes Given: 944

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus View Post
I would never dream of carrying a pistol cocked and locked.

If you practice, you can rack the slide as you draw, and it's lightning fast.

If you ever saw old time military police draw a 1911, you would realize that there is no need for cocked and locked.

And hammer down on an empty chamber is the safest mode of carry.
You are correct about the hammer down on an unloaded chamber being the 'safest' way to carry UNLESS you are under attack and you are using your free hand to fend/fight off the attacker while you are drawing your gun!!!
Been there, saw that, done that, and have the scars to prove it.
If you are going to carry a gun carry it LOADED!!!
The two most worthless things in the world:
1. A dull knife.
2. An unloaded (no round ready to fire) gun!!!!
__________________

An armed society is not always a polite society, but it is a free and safe society!
Self Defense is an absolute and natural right!
Keep your head down and your powder dry!

JimRau is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 12:28 AM   #82
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 100
Liked 21 Times on 15 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus
Weapon, I am not a disciple of that old 19th century duphus Jeffie Cooper.

I can draw my SIG 226 or my Beretta 92 and fire as fast as you can with your grand daddy's world war one pistol.

I carried a 1911 for a while in military service. I was not impressed with it, but I did learn how to use.

As for Jeffie's "wild west quick draw hype" law enforcement experience doesn't bear out the need for it.

That is the stuff of Jeffie's shooting games, not the real world.

If you don't allow your head to become lodged in your arse, you will not be involved in a Wild West quick draw situation.
lol

First, my 1911 is certainly not WWI vintage -- if you knew anything about modern 1911s, you would realize how utterly silly you sound. As for being faster than me with a 1911 while using a DA/SA...keep taking your medication, those delusions will go away sooner or later.

Since you do not like Jeff Cooper try this one:
"In Condition One, a firearm is in its fullest state of readiness. The operator is simply required to draw or present the pistol to the threat and apply the mechanics necessary to make the pistol fire. Condition One would be a correct choice when it is necessary to carry the pistol in a state of readiness for potential imminent use. [Which would include concealed carry].

Condition Two: Dangerous And Awkward

In Condition Two, the pistol has a cartridge in the chamber and a full magazine in place. Glocks cannot be carried in Condition Two as they have no external hammer. When a 1911 is carried in Condition Two, the thumb safety is off and the hammer is down. The grip safety is still in place but does not come into play until the hammer is brought back for firing.

This Condition of Carry offers the dual disadvantage of being both dangerous and awkward. To bring the pistol into action, the operator must first cock the hammer to the rear, making this method of operation slower than the "cocked-and-locked" method of Condition One. Furthermore, Condition. Two could be dangerous if the hammer slips during the risky "dropping" process or if the gun itself is accidentally dropped while in this hammer-down mode. This mode of carry is not recommended under any circumstances.

....I recommend that Condition Three is appropriate for firearm storage only if the half-loaded guns function as secondary weapons and are stored in locked vaults or lock boxes." - Clint Smith.

Look up any other respected combat pistol instructor in the country and you will find basically the same recommendations.

I suspect you think you know more and/or are faster than them as well.
__________________
weapon is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 12:50 AM   #83
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,036
Liked 100 Times on 83 Posts
Likes Given: 42

Default

I carry my 938 Con 1 all the time. I keep my glock bedside but it stays Con 3 99% of the time. Before I sold my 1911, it was bedside in Con 0. The grip safe was enough for me. (and after 9 years of ownership, it never shot anyone in that state)

As for the guy above talking smack about Colonel Cooper, ignorance is bliss. I made it a point to basically live by those rules and conditions from the day I turned 21. I have never had an accidental fire, no one has ever hurt themselves with my weapons. And those who claim to be quick draw phenoms, are usually the ones who die first. If you talk smack, I have no worries about you. It's the quiet guy off to the side that concerns me.

__________________
GeneralPatton is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 01:28 AM   #84
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 820
Liked 156 Times on 115 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus View Post

And you personally never, never use an incorrect term?? Really????

You never call a revolver a wheelgun?
You never call a carbine a rifle?
You never call your weapon a gun?

GIVE IT A REST!!
No, sometimes I make mistakes but I would rather use the correct term if I was trying to sound educated.
__________________
95sniper is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 02:12 PM   #85
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: The Free State of Winston, AL
Posts: 3,060
Liked 1978 Times on 1171 Posts
Likes Given: 944

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus View Post
Weapon, I am not a disciple of that old 19th century duphus Jeffie Cooper.

I can draw my SIG 226 or my Beretta 92 and fire as fast as you can with your grand daddy's world war one pistol.

I carried a 1911 for a while in military service. I was not impressed with it, but I did learn how to use.

As for Jeffie's "wild west quick draw hype" law enforcement experience doesn't bear out the need for it.

That is the stuff of Jeffie's shooting games, not the real world.

If you don't allow your head to become lodged in your arse, you will not be involved in a Wild West quick draw situation.
I don't know how much law enforcement experience you have, but my nearly 40 years of LE experience, with 25+ years as a firearms instructor, has shown that 'quick draw' is not hype and is very important in LE training/survival!!! Part of our qual was to draw and fire 2 rounds in 1.2 seconds!
You sir are just plain wrong on this one!!!
__________________

An armed society is not always a polite society, but it is a free and safe society!
Self Defense is an absolute and natural right!
Keep your head down and your powder dry!

JimRau is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 02:55 PM   #86
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 820
Liked 156 Times on 115 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

I wouldn't say that a speed draw is critical in every situation, but then again how do you know what the situation will be beforehand? I would rather practice often and be quick than slow and fumbly.

__________________
95sniper is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 03:03 PM   #87
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
StainlessSteel215's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 821
Liked 282 Times on 204 Posts
Likes Given: 192

Default

Glock 30SF is my HD/SD champion

__________________
StainlessSteel215 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 03:55 PM   #88
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,685
Liked 1099 Times on 607 Posts
Likes Given: 459

Default

I can't believe we're still debating about whether or not an inanimate object, a metal and wood or metal and plastic machine tool, is "safe" or "unsafe". You, the operator, are responsible for your "safety" and the "safety" of everyone else around your machine tool.

As powerful as the family car is, it is not "safe" or "unsafe", it has operators that make responsible decisions about how to use it that don't lead to their death or injury or the death or injury of other people and, unfortunately, sometimes the operator makes irresponsible decisions about how to use it. The only type of car I would characterize as "unsafe", or not suitable for driving, would be a car that doesn't respond properly to operator input. Even then, it is the responsibility of the operator and manufacturer to determine proper operation of the vehicle.

If you permit the trigger of your pistol, or any other firearm, to be depressed while ammunition is present and you don't intend to fire, expect the possibility of injury or death. If some mechanical device built into the firearm manages to compensate for your irresponsible behavior, that's a desirable happenstance, but it can never and will never be a replacement for responsible operation.

If you can't manage to not depress the trigger except when you intend to do so, perhaps it would be best for you and everyone else around you if you did not use firearms.

If you don't have a firearm loaded with ammunition then you don't have a firearm. An unloaded firearm is no different than a club, it just costs a lot more and isn't a particularly well-designed club.

There are only two "conditions" that your "firearm" can be in:

1. Loaded and ready to fire, in which case you have a "firearm"

2. Unloaded or not ready to fire, in which case you have a "club" not a "firearm"

What amazes me the most is that even in the military and firearms training community there are still people who permit the protectionist ideas to flourish. If you don't believe that you can responsibly use the very tools that the protectionists want to take away from you, then why should they or anyone else think that you can responsibly use those tools?

__________________
kbd512 is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 04:15 PM   #89
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
locutus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,364
Liked 5758 Times on 3257 Posts
Likes Given: 5197

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRau View Post
I don't know how much law enforcement experience you have, but my nearly 40 years of LE experience, with 25+ years as a firearms instructor, has shown that 'quick draw' is not hype and is very important in LE training/survival!!! Part of our qual was to draw and fire 2 rounds in 1.2 seconds!
You sir are just plain wrong on this one!!!
Jim, I had 20 1/.2 years LE, 15 as a firearms instructor. I've carried revolvers, 1911s, Glocks, Berettas, and the SIG.

My first choice is the SIG, second Beretta, third Glock. And my qualification was pretty much the same as yours.

And I still consider Jeffie Cooper a 19th century dinosaur.

My department didn't allow SA like the 1911. As most departments don't. Basic safety.

And the gentleman who thinks that he can deploy and fire a 1911 faster or more effectively than a double action simply doesn't know what he's arguing about.
__________________
“We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us.”


Winston Churchill
locutus is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 03:38 AM   #90
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: The Free State of Winston, AL
Posts: 3,060
Liked 1978 Times on 1171 Posts
Likes Given: 944

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus View Post
Jim, I had 20 1/.2 years LE, 15 as a firearms instructor. I've carried revolvers, 1911s, Glocks, Berettas, and the SIG.

My first choice is the SIG, second Beretta, third Glock. And my qualification was pretty much the same as yours.

And I still consider Jeffie Cooper a 19th century dinosaur.

My department didn't allow SA like the 1911. As most departments don't. Basic safety.

And the gentleman who thinks that he can deploy and fire a 1911 faster or more effectively than a double action simply doesn't know what he's arguing about.
It's ALL in the training!!!
When I moved to AK I was required to use a Glock and a Threat level three holster which was completely new to me and it took me A LOT of practice to master it, BUT when I did I was as fast as I was with my level one holster I had used for 26 years. When I did carry a 1911 (SWAT) I was just as fast with it as I was with my S&W M19.
BUT when we went to the S&W auto (5906) in 1988 I got rid of all my Hi powers and 1911's because I found myself drawing the S&W and as I was drawing I was putting it on safe!!! This was because I had been so condition when I was using an auto (SA) to do this. I trained to simply draw and fire regardless of what weapon I was using and to this day do not own a SA. The only SA I have used since was the Glock and it had no safety so I used the same mindset.
But the 'fast draw' is not 'hype', it MUST be part of your LE training if you want to prevail on the street.
"As fast as you can, as slow as you have to" is what I teach!!!
__________________

An armed society is not always a polite society, but it is a free and safe society!
Self Defense is an absolute and natural right!
Keep your head down and your powder dry!

JimRau is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Home Protection Gun guthy125 Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 30 01-17-2013 03:24 AM
Home Protection with AR greenr19 Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 1 04-05-2010 01:50 AM
.38 or .357 ammo, home protection BacktoGats Revolver Handguns 40 11-29-2009 11:08 PM
Home Protection Shotgun mariam General Shotgun Discussion 161 09-29-2009 09:10 PM
advice on home protection bellx1 The Club House 10 05-04-2008 03:44 PM