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Old 11-10-2012, 12:53 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by SSGN_Doc
here's the deal on why a .223 round with the right bullet could penetrate less than a 9mm bullet. Jacket thickness and velocity work to make a .223 fragment at close range. A 9mm bullet has a thicker jacket and moves slower and is less likely to make the jacket break at close range. this means you have a larger mass traveling through the walls.

I sat on jury duty for a case where a guy shot at his wife from outsider their trailer home with a .380. The bullet went through the wall near the door, through another half wall, and a counter, then into the cupboard above the stove and into a coffee can where the bullet stopped. That was a low powered 9mm and penetrated quite a bit. A full 9mm Luger round would have kept going even further. A .223 bullet would have probably exited the first wall breaking up into smaller pieces that would penetrate less on the other side.

To increase the possibility of fragmentation a good soft point should be used instead of a FMJ round if using a .223.
Thanks for the information, I did not know that. I just assumed the fmj 223 would penetrate farther than a hollow point 9mm. That's why I like this forum. Learn something new everyday.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:02 AM   #62
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Thanks for the information, I did not know that. I just assumed the fmj 223 would penetrate farther than a hollow point 9mm. That's why I like this forum. Learn something new everyday.
Doc is talking about using ammo with either a HP bullet or maybe even a ballistic tipped bullet, not FMJ ammo. FMJ ammo in a 223 will penetrate further than a 9mm. JHP or ballistic tipped ammo will break up or fragment when hitting a solid object and instantly dump most of it's energy.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:39 AM   #63
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Doc is talking about using ammo with either a HP bullet or maybe even a ballistic tipped bullet, not FMJ ammo. FMJ ammo in a 223 will penetrate further than a 9mm. JHP or ballistic tipped ammo will break up or fragment when hitting a solid object and instantly dump most of it's energy.
Good point, that I may not have been clear on. .223 FMJ can fragment up close when velocities are over 2400 fps in the 55gr lead core loads. HOWEVER, if selecting a load for home defense I would REALLY want to increase the chances of fragmentation and use only HP, SP, or Ballistuc tip bullets designed to expand or fragment.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:45 AM   #64
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I have killed deer in very thick brush with a shotgun that has a 28" barrel. That fact eliminates any fear I might have about being able to handle a 18.5" barrel shotgun in the house. I am comfortable with a pump shotgun. I have had a pump since I was 13 years old. Given all these facts a pump shotgun is my number one choice for self defense. Statistics say you are most likely to be attacked by someone that you know. I don't know anyone that sees a pistol as a number one choice for an offensive weapon. Bringing a pistol to a shotgun fight is on par with bringing a knife to a gunfight.

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Old 11-10-2012, 12:36 PM   #65
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I think the best option for legal and safety reasons especially if you have kids is to all make a stand in one room where you create a choke point,Call the police with an opportunity to a escape through a window if things go bad.I.e the bg sets fire to house (happened over here recently to a familly. most of family killed ). I feel it's much harder to defend your home if you go room to room where multiple perps could be there. Also from a legal aspect your claim for sd is much stronger if you did not go looking for trouble where an ensuing fire fight could sent ordinance to your neighbors. Once bg either goes up stairs or enters bedrooms it very clear that your life is in Danger and you would have No option but to defend your family. The bg's can have my stuff I have insurance for that.

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Old 11-10-2012, 03:58 PM   #66
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Here in Utah we have castle laws. You break into my home, I get to kill you. I'm not going to huddle in the corner and wait for them to possibly burn my house down. I will call the police, but then I will go defend my family and my home. If you don't have castle laws, perhaps huddling in the corner is a good idea. But that won't be happening in my home.

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Old 11-10-2012, 04:09 PM   #67
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My daughters room is close to our front door. I will kill you before you get to her.

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Old 11-10-2012, 06:29 PM   #68
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I think the best option for legal and safety reasons especially if you have kids is to all make a stand in one room where you create a choke point,Call the police with an opportunity to a escape through a window if things go bad.I.e the bg sets fire to house (happened over here recently to a familly. most of family killed ). I feel it's much harder to defend your home if you go room to room where multiple perps could be there. Also from a legal aspect your claim for sd is much stronger if you did not go looking for trouble where an ensuing fire fight could sent ordinance to your neighbors. Once bg either goes up stairs or enters bedrooms it very clear that your life is in Danger and you would have No option but to defend your family. The bg's can have my stuff I have insurance for that.
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Here in Utah we have castle laws. You break into my home, I get to kill you. I'm not going to huddle in the corner and wait for them to possibly burn my house down. I will call the police, but then I will go defend my family and my home. If you don't have castle laws, perhaps huddling in the corner is a good idea. But that won't be happening in my home.
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My daughters room is close to our front door. I will kill you before you get to her.
this is exactly the point i was trying make. everyones situation and floorplan is going to be different. so different techniques for different situations. in certain situations, a person may need to get to other family members in another part the house. and sometimes, the better option might be to hole up in a place and make the BG's come to you. use what works the best for you and what will provide the best defence for you and your family, period.

IFCshooter, when they entered your home, they became a danger, period. that is very clear to me and insuch they have placed themselves into my house, so therefor i get to play by my rules. and my rules are simple, my family and i get to live, and the BG leaves, horizontal or vertical, his choice.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:38 PM   #69
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12 gauge and .45 by my bedside. .357 mag 4 ft away. rifle in closet.

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Old 11-10-2012, 10:35 PM   #70
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12G pump like Mossberg 5XX series or REM 870

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