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Old 03-28-2010, 07:04 PM   #41
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Buckwheat,

Obviously, you haven't shot the LCR.

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Old 03-28-2010, 07:09 PM   #42
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Buckwheat,

Obviously, you haven't shot the LCR.
Nor I suspect, a real S&W J-frame. The Taurii tends to have terrible triggers, not so the S&W...
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:29 PM   #43
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Oh, Nevermind what Cane, Goju, and Shihan said. Well, we see how that works. Hell, RSG didn't even post in this thread.



I took into account what you, Cane and Goju said. And I pm'd RSG to ask about the Elsie Arrgh. She told me how much she enjoyed it, how little recoil it had and how it was a pleasure to shoot. She also told me how cute you are in a Snuggie, but that had nothing to do with the original question I've also been talking to Cane through PM about the baby Colt 1911 and the New Agent. I do throughly appreciate MOST of the feedback in this thread. The Glock lover/ J-Frame hater doesn't seem to be helping me decide..... just my 2 cents
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:35 PM   #44
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Most Women are not going to get into a Gunfight, It is meant for Self Defense, When a woman is attacked, it is usually from up close, where a hammerless Snub nose revolver can be pulled and placed in the side of Perp and fired. Why take the risk and worry of having to rack the slide of a semi-auto or having to worry that shoving said Semi in the BG's ribs disengaging the Pistol.

A revolver is a perfectly good choice for a Woman to carry as a Self defense weapon.
but this is arguing from the perspective that "since most, then dont..." Personally, i like to train myself, and others, from the perspective that gunfights (and my definition is "any fight that involves a gun") are incredibly dynamic and never follow a training course of fire. this is like showing up at a construction site with nothing more than a hammer, because a significant percentage of the work you do on a construction site is hammering. no... there's other tasks too, some foreseeable, others not. bring a full tool bag.

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Buckwheat,

Obviously, you haven't shot the LCR.
this is true. i have not. but the only thing that could be different is trigger pull, unless i'm missing something important.

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Nor I suspect, a real S&W J-frame. The Taurii tends to have terrible triggers, not so the S&W...
this is un-true.. the first was a model 34 (i think?) and the last was a 642. every double action weapon has an inherently long trigger pull, and any small weapon has an inherently stiff mainspring. this is why i advocate striker-fired weapons, which are essentially half-cocked all the time.
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Old 03-28-2010, 08:08 PM   #45
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MoHawk, for reliability, you can't beat a good revolver.

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Old 03-28-2010, 08:12 PM   #46
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I just want to point out that although you can carry more ammunition with a 9mm such as a glock the math works out to be the same amount of stoping power. The best performing 9mm round for OSS (Cor Bon JHP source: 9x19mm Parabellum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) has twice the chance of not stopping someone as the best performing .45 acp OSS (Federal Hydrashock JHP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP). The .45 also has a faster average incapacitation time than a 9mm and has less pennetration meaning more of the energy will actually go into the target. 9mm has 14 inches and .45 has 12 inches. Keep in mind that if the round actually leaves the target than the stopping power is reduced. Also, how many people is said person going to be engaging at one time? Because if its enough to have to worry about have more than 8 rounds its not gonna come out to great anyway. Assuming that the others dont run once one has been shot meaning they are all probably armed. Another benefit is the psychological affect seeing someone shot with a .45 has vs a 9mm. If you make a grapefruit sized hole in someones chest the other individuals will be seriously psychologically affected and will more than likely signal the flight response.\

.45 source: ....it wont post the link for some reason but its on wikipedia just search .45 acp

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Old 03-28-2010, 08:12 PM   #47
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MoHawk, for reliability, you can't beat a good revolver.
I know. My EDC is a Taurus 85. She just feels like it is a cannon. And I would like for her to have something that has a REAL safety on it, as this will be her first gun and a learning experience. But, I'm looking at prices on LCR's now
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Old 03-28-2010, 08:32 PM   #48
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When you price, I wouldn't worry about getting the CT grips, though nice, for the type of use the LCR would be for, don't think they are needed.

Go and try one out, then let us know what you think. If you want to come to Wilmington, you could shoot RSG's.

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Old 03-28-2010, 08:39 PM   #49
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I just want to point out that although you can carry more ammunition with a 9mm such as a glock the math works out to be the same amount of stoping power. The best performing 9mm round for OSS (Cor Bon JHP source: 9x19mm Parabellum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) has twice the chance of not stopping someone as the best performing .45 acp OSS (Federal Hydrashock JHP .45 ACP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). The .45 also has a faster average incapacitation time than a 9mm and has less pennetration meaning more of the energy will actually go into the target. 9mm has 14 inches and .45 has 12 inches. Keep in mind that if the round actually leaves the target than the stopping power is reduced.
have you read any modern/recent terminal ballistics articles? the difference between .45 and 9mm holes are, contrary to 100 years of popular opinion (which almost never directly correlates to "correct" opinion), indistinguishable. i used to believe a larger bullet equaled a larger hole, too, but in actual autopsy examination, its impossible to determine caliber without a recovered round. the only thing that makes a difference in whether a threat can be stopped is "shot placement."

i hate the term "shot placement," because it's become so cliche that the true nature of what we're talking about is generally misunderstood. "shot placement" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with accuracy- rather, it's a variable relying largely on luck. you can land multiple .45 caliber COM hits and not strike vital organs or blood vessels- if no vital organs or blood vessels are hit, the threat has only superficial wounds, despite a tight group of holes in his chest. at the same time, you can land a thigh hit with a .380 (i'm not, nor will i ever advocate .380) FMJ and have him not only go down, but bleed out and die in less than 60 seconds due to a shattered femur sending bone fragments into the femoral artery. DRT, by the time EMT arrives.

so there's a HELL of a lot more to terminal ballistics than caliber. pretty much everything from 9mm up are all perfectly good choices, if we're talking about penetration alone- which is the only real factor in determining load worth. all will, with a good bonded bullet, expand and penetrate to a depth of 12" or more. that's all you need to ensure the round won't stop short and miss vitals. it's once you factor in other variables- like shootability, capacity, reliability, etc., that our caliber selection starts to narrow out.

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Also, how many people is said person going to be engaging at one time? Because if its enough to have to worry about have more than 8 rounds its not gonna come out to great anyway. Assuming that the others dont run once one has been shot meaning they are all probably armed. Another benefit is the psychological affect seeing someone shot with a .45 has vs a 9mm. If you make a grapefruit sized hole in someones chest the other individuals will be seriously psychologically affected and will more than likely signal the flight response.\

.45 source: ....it wont post the link for some reason but its on wikipedia just search .45 acp
the "how many" question shouldn't be asked, because it cant be answered. assumptions only take tools out of the toolbox, so they just shouldnt be made. the biggest thing to consider when trying to decide ammo capacity requirements is now "how many" targets, but "how well do you shoot under the influence of acute stress response?" ASR will turn an expert shooter into the equivalent of a 5 year old with a super-soaker. if you've never experienced a 2-way range, you have NO CLUE how you'll respond, and you'll most likely just "point shoot" until your magazine is empty. this is a standard response for CCW self-defense shootings between two armed men. given only as an example, however- as i said, you just can't make assumptions about "how it will be." then when we factor in what we know about terminal ballistics, and how 10 rounds COM can still leave an attacker attacking, the larger capacity weapons start to look a lot mor attractive.
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Old 03-28-2010, 08:53 PM   #50
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When you price, I wouldn't worry about getting the CT grips, though nice, for the type of use the LCR would be for, don't think they are needed.

Go and try one out, then let us know what you think. If you want to come to Wilmington, you could shoot RSG's.



I just might have to do that....
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