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Old 10-02-2012, 04:52 AM   #1
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Default FTF out of state private sale question???

I know this subject has been beaten to death but I have to ask. I am in IL and considering selling a gun to a resident in Indiana. We both would like to do it face to face and have been told it is ok to do so (maybe he just said that because the less the government knows the better). I have also heard that any out of state transfer must go through ffl's. Could I drive to his state and transfer the gun to him through an ffl? Oh and Im sure I will get a beating for this one but he is also 20 years old. I know it is legal to sell and buy handguns privately as long as your 18 but am unsure about out of state sales.


I will be calling the state police tomorrow but wanted any input from those who have experience with out of state sales.

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Old 10-02-2012, 06:13 AM   #2
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The laws vary state to state.For instance, Nevada recognizes bordering states as legal to do a FTF transfer, but CA does not. I cannot legally purchase a gun in Nevada without transferring through an FFL because of CA state law. But an Idaho resident can. Check with both states.

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Old 10-02-2012, 06:21 AM   #3
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Because you posted this in the handgun section....

I would advise against it at the buyer is 20. Must be 21 to purchase a handgun (even if private).

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Old 10-02-2012, 02:43 PM   #4
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I would go by the book. If the gun is used in a crime 20 years from now this could come back to haunt you. At his end if it's not a legal sale and the gun is stolen his insurance won't pay.

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Old 10-02-2012, 03:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
Because you posted this in the handgun section....

I would advise against it at the buyer is 20. Must be 21 to purchase a handgun (even if private).
Huh? Federal law does not address FTF sales. It is illegal for an FFL holder to sell a hangun to a 20 year old. FTF is different. State law may address this. In Texas, for instance, it is legal to sell a handgun to an 18 year old, FTF

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I would go by the book. If the gun is used in a crime 20 years from now this could come back to haunt you. At his end if it's not a legal sale and the gun is stolen his insurance won't pay.
And, what "book" are you referring to? If the gun is used in a crime 20 years from now, someone may come knocking (more likely a phone call) inquiring about the gun. A simple handwritten bill of sale will satisfy the inquiry.

What insurance company is going to demand proof the gun was "legally" aquired? All they ask for is proof you actually owned the gun. How the heck are they going to determine legality of a sale? Are you going to have to provide a copy of the 4473? That is just ridiculous.
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
Huh? Federal law does not address FTF sales. It is illegal for an FFL holder to sell a hangun to a 20 year old. FTF is different. State law may address this. In Texas, for instance, it is legal to sell a handgun to an 18 year old, FTF



And, what "book" are you referring to? If the gun is used in a crime 20 years from now, someone may come knocking (more likely a phone call) inquiring about the gun. A simple handwritten bill of sale will satisfy the inquiry.

What insurance company is going to demand proof the gun was "legally" aquired? All they ask for is proof you actually owned the gun. How the heck are they going to determine legality of a sale? Are you going to have to provide a copy of the 4473? That is just ridiculous.
Probably why it makes sense to do it thru an FFL since they will have legal records of the sale as well as the NICS call to boot. But that may just be the New Jersey in me talking.
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:21 PM   #7
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STOP. In this case, Federal law DOES address face to face sales. As a Federal alw, will apply to all states.

If you are a private citizen, not a FFL, you may ONLY transfer ownership a firearm to a fellow resident of your state, or to a FFL in any state. The one exception is transfer by inheritance. This is in 18 US Code Section 922 (long read) Do NOT confuse a FTF sale with the provisions for a Dealer to make a long gun sale at his licensed premises to a resident of another state. He is a dealer and can. You ain't, and can't. Period.



You CAN deliver to a FFL in the recipient's state, and have the FFL make the transfer. However, if that person cannot legally buy a gun, you cannot legally transfer one to him either. To do a FTF across a state line, you are committing a Federal felony. Investigated and prosecuted by the ATF. Not the best move in the world.

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Old 10-02-2012, 03:24 PM   #8
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C3 hit the nail on the head! Follow that!

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Old 10-02-2012, 03:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
Because you posted this in the handgun section....

I would advise against it at the buyer is 20. Must be 21 to purchase a handgun (even if private).
Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
Huh? Federal law does not address FTF sales.


Wrong. Familiarize yourself with ATF regs.



OP. You may not sell to a out of state resident UNLESS it is though a licensed dealer.

So, YES, you may drive to Indiana, meet him at a gunshop, and transfer through them.


Also, keep in mind this is posted on a public forum... the feds constantly parouse them for illegal activity.
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:56 PM   #10
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From the ATF website:

Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

Not to mention who know what the laws in IL say. Which I believe have to be through an FFL even if it's a private sale, but I could be wrong there.

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