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Old 08-23-2012, 12:23 AM   #41
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Please,make your decisions based on what YOU know and what YOUR needs are....don't take what I'm doing as what you should be doing,too.

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Old 08-23-2012, 06:03 PM   #42
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I don't care about bullet weight or 9mm vs. 45 acp, you all should be shooting until the BG is down then shoot them in the head.
That's one way to make sure you get your day in court. It might even get you a few years in prison. Once the "BG" as you call him is down the threat is usually over. That head shot you're advising moves things out of the self defense category into murder or manslaughter.
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:21 PM   #43
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Most of you will never need your gun. Of the times you do the vast majority can be handled with decent training using 9mm.
I guess that's why so many police departments have shed the 9mm in favor of the .40 S&W. or .45 ACP.

Seriously, I have seen 9mm's fail to penetrate winter clothing, and I live in Florida where the winter clothing isn't that heavy. It's true that many fights can be ended just by displaying a firearm, but in the ones that can't, I want something that will certainly end the fight. I have one question I always ask myself when I buy a new gun.

Is this gun powerful enough to save my granddaughter's life?
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:01 PM   #44
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Good luck proving self defense when you shoot through a car door.

Look at the actual statistics of real word defensive shooting. I get guys in the er shot all over the map 22 through shotguns. Its always placement and contributing factors such as nicking the right artery etc.

You see guys dying from one round if 22 and people surviving shotgun blasts to the head.

Its about what you can hit with. There is no perfect round and no perfect gun.

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Old 08-24-2012, 07:40 AM   #45
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I guess that's why so many police departments have shed the 9mm in favor of the .40 S&W. or .45 ACP.

Seriously, I have seen 9mm's fail to penetrate winter clothing, and I live in Florida where the winter clothing isn't that heavy. It's true that many fights can be ended just by displaying a firearm, but in the ones that can't, I want something that will certainly end the fight. I have one question I always ask myself when I buy a new gun.

Is this gun powerful enough to save my granddaughter's life?
9mm is moving very fast... I seen a video on youtube were a man shot a hard drive with both a 9mm and 45acp fmj. 9mm went thru but 45acp dent it.

So 9mm can travel but it's mass is smaller. I sold my 45acp and trust me I feel great cause I know 9mm can kill.

I seen what it did for nazi germany so I have faith in it. I love 45's but damn its pricy.

Any flying metal hit you it's going to hurt like hell. Some people body are stronger plus if that person has a strong will to live then it's even harder to stop them...

It's not easy knocking someone out. Some can take a punch some can't.

Some people can take a bullet some can't. But a headshot, heartshot or spineshot from any caliber will end the fight...

50cent get shot 9 time and live. A baby or innocent person get shot once and die. We will never understand why...
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:27 PM   #46
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9mm is moving very fast... I seen a video on youtube were a man shot a hard drive with both a 9mm and 45acp fmj. 9mm went thru but 45acp dent it.

If people were built like hard drives I would be impressed. Seeing 100s of real life gunshot victims over the years I can tell you they're not.

So 9mm can travel but it's mass is smaller. I sold my 45acp and trust me I feel great cause I know 9mm can kill.

So can a knife, a rope, cars, dogs, electricity, a pencil or a tightly rolled piece of typing paper. With the exception of the car all of them require either a proximity or skill level I'm not comfortable with.

It's not easy knocking someone out. Some can take a punch some can't.

Some people can take a bullet some can't. But a headshot, heartshot or spineshot from any caliber will end the fight...


And now we go right back to what I have said in many different posts in this and other forums. Shot placement is 3 dimensional. Getting the shot high enough and centered enough to hit center mass is not enough in a defensive situation. You also have to get it deep enough to hit vital organs. Stopping a projectile on a rib or coat zipper will not get you the penetration you need.

Don't take my word for this. Research it yourself. Go to reputable sites like the Journal for the American Medical Association, the New England Journal of Medicine, the Centers for Disease Control and the FBI.

I love 45's but damn its pricy.

I know, but I'm worth it.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:51 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by targetshotpro View Post
I don't care about bullet weight or 9mm vs. 45 acp, you all should be shooting until the BG is down then shoot them in the head. For me it is all roundcount and shot placement, shoot until they drop or the slide locks back then reload
Not this junk again...


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Old 08-30-2012, 12:20 AM   #48
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hmm, 10mm it is then lol

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Old 09-02-2012, 11:44 PM   #49
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9x19 NATO ball can punch kevlar that .45 and .40 fail to defeat- I'm thinking that perhaps the incidents of 9mm being stopped by clothing are either indicative of JHP failure that we also see happen in .40 and .45 (most notably the .40 caliber JHP that failed to penetrate to reach vitals in the video in the OP, in a very similar fashion the 9x19 round that failed in the '86 FBI shootout),which in sum is more of an indictment of dum dum bullets then it is any particular caliber,or you witnessed an anomaly that could have been caused by any number of different things such as distance,a poorly loaded round (it happens) etc.

I'd bet that the 9x18 Makarov cartridge I had a squib with,had it managed to leave the barrel,would have done something similar,like bounced off the target.

One of the episodes of "box o' truth" shows a round from a box of boutique JHP's bouncing off the target.

It happens.

I myself have witnessed 9x18 ball,when its performing up to spec, punching thru both sides of a water filled 55 gallon steel drum.

Aside from what I'm starting to think of as "the dum dum conundrum" and the erratic performance of JHP's in calibers across the board,I would say that even the "lowly" .22lr has the ability to penetrate deep enough to affect damage to vital organs.

I'm not advocating the .22 for self defense,in fact I'm not advocating any caliber- but I think that if you choose the gun/caliber your comfortable with and put some time into learning its abilities and how to use it well and choosing ammo that your comfortable with,your fine.

The 9mm vs. .4 or more thing is just way too contentious and filled with way too many "true believers" to really be something any reasonable person should base his decision for a handgun/caliber on.

If the freaking Mossad and Israeli Air Marshals used to use the .22,i think I'm fine with my 9.Or my .40.
And your .32,.380,Makarov,.38 special,.357 mag,.45,10mm etc,etc is good too.

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Old 09-03-2012, 02:11 AM   #50
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Got it, shot placement.....

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