Dr. speaks about gunshot wounds - Page 3
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > General Handgun Discussion > Dr. speaks about gunshot wounds

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-17-2012, 07:15 PM   #21
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
KalashnikovJosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,156
Liked 320 Times on 191 Posts
Likes Given: 426

Default

Well,given that I can handle the recoil of +p stuff in my P11,and that military grade NATO spec ammo is most likely going to be manufactured with much tighter quality control (its for the military,after all) then range fodder, as well as the fact that were looking at a 124gr vs.115gr ball,and that the 124gr ball is going to have some good velocity too,I think I'd better get to ordering some NATO 9.

Thanks for all your insight!

__________________
"You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul."
-Mahatma Gandhi

http://jpfo.org/
III%
KalashnikovJosh is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 07:44 PM   #22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Pasco Cty.FL
Posts: 6,608
Liked 2515 Times on 1434 Posts
Likes Given: 1962

Default

Now, see, if you consider maximizing terminal energy,

bear in mind, when you shoot the BG, if you aim for the jewels,

he's probably clutching them in his left grip, so you will

also probably take one of your attacker's hands out of

action, also...

__________________
therewolf is offline  
KalashnikovJosh Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 08:37 PM   #23
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
KalashnikovJosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,156
Liked 320 Times on 191 Posts
Likes Given: 426

Default

Your not allowed to use the words "attack","shoot","jewels","nuts",or "balls" in the same sentence in any more of my posts ever again man!



__________________
"You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul."
-Mahatma Gandhi

http://jpfo.org/
III%
KalashnikovJosh is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 09:10 PM   #24
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8
Default

If you need to use JHP, then use XTP that in all likely hood will blow right through most torsos that walk upright and expand 1.50.

__________________
Dana is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 09:58 PM   #25
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CHLChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Portland,Oregon
Posts: 2,523
Liked 190 Times on 129 Posts
Likes Given: 89

Default

I think it suggests the fact that a 9mm vs. 45acp argument is almost a waste of time. Rifle vs. handgun is where it's at. If at all possible, use a long arm for home defense.

Otherwise, the doctor made it clear that a bigger bullet is better. I take that to mean 45acp is better than 9mm. And I think it means 147gr is better than 115gr in the 9mm world.

And velocity makes a big difference for penetration.

__________________
.45acp, .40 S&W, 9mm, .38 Spl, .380 acp, 22lr
12 gauge, .223/5.56x45mm, 30-30 Winchester


2 Chron. 7:14 Christians must seek His face
CHLChris is offline  
KalashnikovJosh Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 04:06 AM   #26
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
GlockRenegade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 603
Liked 55 Times on 52 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHLChris
I think it suggests the fact that a 9mm vs. 45acp argument is almost a waste of time. Rifle vs. handgun is where it's at. If at all possible, use a long arm for home defense.

Otherwise, the doctor made it clear that a bigger bullet is better. I take that to mean 45acp is better than 9mm. And I think it means 147gr is better than 115gr in the 9mm world.

And velocity makes a big difference for penetratio+n.
Yes i totally agree. I have 147gr federal JHPs followed by 147gr american eagle FMJs. Another mag has PDX 124gr bonded HPs, followed by winchester Nato rds 124gr
__________________
GlockRenegade is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 03:47 PM   #27
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Jacksonville,FL
Posts: 2,831
Liked 1768 Times on 989 Posts
Likes Given: 1302

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHLChris View Post
I think it suggests the fact that a 9mm vs. 45acp argument is almost a waste of time. Rifle vs. handgun is where it's at. If at all possible, use a long arm for home defense.

Otherwise, the doctor made it clear that a bigger bullet is better. I take that to mean 45acp is better than 9mm. And I think it means 147gr is better than 115gr in the 9mm world.

And velocity makes a big difference for penetration.
If you are using lighter projectiles to achieve the velocity I disagree with your velocity and penetration statement, but only on bio-targets. On gel, which is a fixed density throughout, you are correct.

If you are keeping projectile weight the same and boosting velocity with a longer barrel or more powder, then I agree with your statement when used against bio-targets.
__________________
Doc3402 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 04:48 PM   #28
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CHLChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Portland,Oregon
Posts: 2,523
Liked 190 Times on 129 Posts
Likes Given: 89

Default

Of course reducing bullet weight in the same platform increases velocity, but may have a deleterious effect on penetration.

To my understanding of terminal ballistics, the heaviest bullets in each platform is preferable. When I suggested that increasing velocity is important to consider, I meant that increasing velocity by changing platforms (9mm to 357mag, 40S&W to 10mm, handgun to carbine) is something to seriously consider.

__________________
.45acp, .40 S&W, 9mm, .38 Spl, .380 acp, 22lr
12 gauge, .223/5.56x45mm, 30-30 Winchester


2 Chron. 7:14 Christians must seek His face
CHLChris is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 09:40 PM   #29
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
KalashnikovJosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,156
Liked 320 Times on 191 Posts
Likes Given: 426

Default

What do members here think of flat nosed solid projectiles vs. HP and vs. round nosed ball?

.40 S&W ball seems to typically come in flat nosed format,while its harder -but not impossible- to find the same profile in 9mm.

__________________
"You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul."
-Mahatma Gandhi

http://jpfo.org/
III%
KalashnikovJosh is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 11:25 PM   #30
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Jacksonville,FL
Posts: 2,831
Liked 1768 Times on 989 Posts
Likes Given: 1302

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHLChris View Post
Of course reducing bullet weight in the same platform increases velocity, but may have a deleterious effect on penetration.

To my understanding of terminal ballistics, the heaviest bullets in each platform is preferable. When I suggested that increasing velocity is important to consider, I meant that increasing velocity by changing platforms (9mm to 357mag, 40S&W to 10mm, handgun to carbine) is something to seriously consider.
Let's use a 9mm for an example. Because of the 9mm case size constraints you are pretty much limited to a 147gr projectile at the heavy end. Lengthen the case, put a rim on it and call it a .357 magnum. You now have room for more powder making it possible to use a heavier projectile of roughly the same diameter. In this case changing platform makes sense from a ballistics standpoint, but to many people it doesn't make practical sense. You would lose the high round count available with many 9mm pistols.

I really wish someone would do a controlled test of a 9mm with the common 110 gr hollow point and the .357 magnum with a 158 gr hollow point loaded to the same velocity and fired out of a test barrel to show the difference in penetration. It would make this stuff a lot easier to understand for many people.

One other thing many people forget to consider is barrel length. The longer you keep burning powder behind the projectile, the more you are able to overcome inertia. Longer barrels generally equate to higher velocity, but you can reach a length where expanding gases are overcome and friction starts to slow things down. In theory, if the barrel is long enough, and the bullet seal is tight enough you would eventually crate a partial vacuum behind the bullet, but that isn't a real world consideration. That's more of a lab experiment if the conditions could ever be created.
__________________
Doc3402 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Police Training Gunshot Fatalities Report DoubleAction Training & Safety 22 03-05-2010 02:59 PM
Veteran billed for treatment of war wounds Musket Politics, Religion and Controversy 23 03-31-2009 02:02 PM
84-year-old man wounds intruder sculker The Club House 6 08-01-2008 06:09 PM
Police: Gunman wounds 3 outside California church sculker The Club House 4 05-18-2008 08:28 PM