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Old 07-05-2013, 04:14 AM   #21
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Hey tekgreg you seem knowledgeable so I have a question why does a snubby .357 feel less recoil to me rather than a 6" barrel .357 is it because what you were saying about the powder or am I just crazy?
To be perfectly honest, everything about perceived recoil is not fully understood. However, assuming it is the same round being fired, it could be that the snubby is built on a smaller frame, bringing the barrel lower and closer in line to your arm, thereby reducing recoil. The grip may fit your hand better, or, if they are different brands, the weight distribution may be different. There are so many variables that play into perceived recoil that it is often not possible to nail it down to any one factor. If you find a firearm that feels better than any other, hang on to it! You may not ever find it again. :-)
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:27 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TekGreg

To be perfectly honest, everything about perceived recoil is not fully understood. However, assuming it is the same round being fired, it could be that the snubby is built on a smaller frame, bringing the barrel lower and closer in line to your arm, thereby reducing recoil. The grip may fit your hand better, or, if they are different brands, the weight distribution may be different. There are so many variables that play into perceived recoil that it is often not possible to nail it down to any one factor. If you find a firearm that feels better than any other, hang on to it! You may not ever find it again. :-)
That is true my friend just shot the taurus .357 snub felt hardly any recoil at all even with no pinky on grip. Then I shot a ruger not exactly what but it was I believe a 6" barrel big heavy gun with same round and pinky grip and it felt like had more muzzle rise and recoil just trying to better understand firearms. Not a beginner but starting out caring about what I shoot. I use to shoot and say oh 9mm cool now I look into ballistics and everything it's amazing how much love for firearms can change.
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:47 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cblowe13

That is true my friend just shot the taurus .357 snub felt hardly any recoil at all even with no pinky on grip. Then I shot a ruger not exactly what but it was I believe a 6" barrel big heavy gun with same round and pinky grip and it felt like had more muzzle rise and recoil just trying to better understand firearms. Not a beginner but starting out caring about what I shoot. I use to shoot and say oh 9mm cool now I look into ballistics and everything it's amazing how much love for firearms can change.
CB, my best advice is to shoot as many different guns and types of ammo as you can borrow, rent or buy used. You will find that your own shooting experiences are highly personalized and do not fit with all of the wisdom floating around gun stores or the Internet. No one is trying to purposely deceive you, it's just that their experiences will differ from yours. My wife found she loves .45 ACP, .44 magnum and magnum 12 gauge - she has no problem with recoil. We both eschew .40, but only because it muzzle flips wildly for both of us. Try them all, have fun, and buy to keep any that feel great!
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“Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." (I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.). Thomas Jefferson

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-Edmund Burke, Loosely translated from Thoughts on the Cause of Present Discontents. (1770)
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:31 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TekGreg

CB, my best advice is to shoot as many different guns and types of ammo as you can borrow, rent or buy used. You will find that your own shooting experiences are highly personalized and do not fit with all of the wisdom floating around gun stores or the Internet. No one is trying to purposely deceive you, it's just that their experiences will differ from yours. My wife found she loves .45 ACP, .44 magnum and magnum 12 gauge - she has no problem with recoil. We both eschew .40, but only because it muzzle flips wildly for both of us. Try them all, have fun, and buy to keep any that feel great!
Yeah I find the .40 awfully snappy and for that I got rid of my sr40. I love hearing my fellow firearms friends experiences. My favorite round is. The 9 because the recoil the round capacity and the muzzle rise and velocity. Mr Greg what's your favorite and why
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:55 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by cblowe13

Yeah I find the .40 awfully snappy and for that I got rid of my sr40. I love hearing my fellow firearms friends experiences. My favorite round is. The 9 because the recoil the round capacity and the muzzle rise and velocity. Mr Greg what's your favorite and why
I have been carrying the .357Sig for awhile due to an article I read that showed statistically it was a superior fight stopper in real world shooting situations and it still has almost the capacity of the larger 9MMs:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power

However, I used to carry a high-capacity 9mm and this article I read yesterday might have me returning to it:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2012/10/23/size-doesnt-matter-using-9mm-for-personal-defense/

I feel it's necessary to be completely comfortable with both the firearm and the caliber when you will be practicing hundreds of rounds a month and betting your life on it. My three decades of shooting have spanned everything from ..22 LR to .454 Casull and found me carrying .45 ACP to .380 to 5.7X28 depending on attire and weather. I tend to live by Clint Smith's saying, "A gun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable." I therefore carry a larger frame pistol and a backup. I think it's important to base life-critical decisions on current factual data,and that's why I am always reading up on things like ammo, ballistics, new manufacturing techniques and tactics as I don't want to be using outdated data. The second article above is a good example.
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:36 PM   #26
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derringers are excellent for what they were designed for.........real close quarter defense (belly guns)
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:01 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TekGreg

I have been carrying the .357Sig for awhile due to an article I read that showed statistically it was a superior fight stopper in real world shooting situations and it still has almost the capacity of the larger 9MMs:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power

However, I used to carry a high-capacity 9mm and this article I read yesterday might have me returning to it:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2012/10/23/size-doesnt-matter-using-9mm-for-personal-defense/

I feel it's necessary to be completely comfortable with both the firearm and the caliber when you will be practicing hundreds of rounds a month and betting your life on it. My three decades of shooting have spanned everything from ..22 LR to .454 Casull and found me carrying .45 ACP to .380 to 5.7X28 depending on attire and weather. I tend to live by Clint Smith's saying, "A gun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable." I therefore carry a larger frame pistol and a backup. I think it's important to base life-critical decisions on current factual data,and that's why I am always reading up on things like ammo, ballistics, new manufacturing techniques and tactics as I don't want to be using outdated data. The second article above is a good example.
Very interesting articles thank you for sharing that and I was wondering if you knew anything about that emfj load for law enforcement I've actually never heard of it? But those statistics are really amazing the number of rounds using a .22 stopping power of just that. But he also does talk about the psychological fact of someone being shot. I'm trying to get into making ballistic gels myself hoping there not a pain to make.
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:18 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by cblowe13

Very interesting articles thank you for sharing that and I was wondering if you knew anything about that emfj load for law enforcement I've actually never heard of it? But those statistics are really amazing the number of rounds using a .22 stopping power of just that. But he also does talk about the psychological fact of someone being shot. I'm trying to get into making ballistic gels myself hoping there not a pain to make.
Yeah, this is the new design for rounds, as it doesn't rely on a hole in the bullet to peel backwards, but uses a silicone plug to reliably force the bullet to split and peel in a very controlled expansion. Here's a link: http://www.handgunsandammunition.com/ammunition-tests-archive/5437-test-1-federal-124gr-p-efmj.html

" (EFMJ), it is what its name implies: a full metal jacketed round which expands. It does this via a rubber plug in the nose. Upon impact the rubber (actually silicone) presses against prestressed scored lines in the jacket, causing deformation and expansion. This renders the bullet immune to weaknesses from which a traditional hollow point bullet suffers, namely the ability to be clogged by cloth.

I am aware of two weights in 9mm caliber as of this point in time, 105 grain and 124 grain. I have heard rumors of a 115 grain version but have not seen it. The 105 grain is readily available to the public. I had been told that the 124 grain is primarily law enforcement. Gary at Federal Cartridge confirmed this. He did add however that they do not restrict sales to non - law enforcement as do some other companies and that it can be ordered through a law enforcement supply shop."

When dealing with self defense, you have to examine the psychology of the gunfight. Some low-level thugs turn and run as soon as you draw, ending the fight before you shoot. Harder criminals will stand and measure you to see if you have the sand to actually pull the trigger. Some will immediately attack you figuring if you delay at all, they will disarm you and kill you with your own gun. That is why it is critically important to run every "what if" scenario you think of or read in the news to the end, as it is necessary to have all of the questions to deadly force answered before you ever encounter the situation. However, if you must shoot to defend your life or others, many times the BG will fall without being physically incapacitated - that is what the author of the article is referring to. That is also why it is important to control the scene and call 911 as soon as possible - the BG may decide to return to the fight and require you to defend yourself again.

Regarding ballistic gel, the mistake most people make is that it has to be shot at within a certain temperature and humidity range to accurately simulate muscle tissue. If its too hot or cold, wet or dry and it won't give an accurate representation. About the only way to do this is in a warehouse with environmental controls. Otherwise, you can use wet newspaper or phone books, boxes filled with computer paper or anything similar to catch the round and measure its performance. It isn't a human body, but it will give you an apples-to-apples comparison of each round and it is cheap and not as volatile as ballistic gel.

And as far as the .22 round, well, those statistics show why it isn't a "kids gun" and might not be the worst thing in the world for defense for those that are lightly built or have a handicap.
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:43 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper762
derringers are excellent for what they were designed for.........real close quarter defense (belly guns)
Yep poke em on the gut and pull the trigger. Accuracy is not an issue.
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:55 AM   #30
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Yep poke em on the gut and pull the trigger. Accuracy is not an issue.
Oh, c'mon! They must be accurate to at least five whole feet! Plenty of room to defend yourself. <sarcasm>
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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

-Edmund Burke, Loosely translated from Thoughts on the Cause of Present Discontents. (1770)
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