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Fireleg 11-09-2009 10:12 PM

Defense Strategy needed
Hello everyone!

I have a problem and need advice! This is the situation:

I am a European and live in South India on a remote farm. Recently there have been raids on farms by gangs not really closeby but not really far away either. I get worried and need a defense strategy.

The site:

Small remote farm, no neighbours, surrounded by fence, guarded by sleepy dogs, two cowardly employees. Small houses with windows of bars, not glass (means: open, wind comes through, insects also if I remove the moskito net).

The attackers:

10-15 gangmembers, armed, but no firearms, ready to be cruel, but not brave (!)

The attack:

Dead of night, cut electricity, poison the dogs, come through the roof or smoke out the people with molotov cocktails or catch them sleeping. Victims always die. If victims seem too resilient, they seal doors and windows and burn the main building while looting the rest of the estate. The defendants would most likely fight inside the house, trying to keep the attackers out and the outside attackers under stress.

Defensive Means:

9-1-1 took 6 minutes last time (luckily no robbers!) to even understand what I needed and where the farm is. And then 35 minutes to get 2 sleepy unarmed uninformed unequipped cops to show up and give me a hassle for calling instead of helping.

Real firearms not allowed and nowhere to get.

All kinds of airguns and CS sprays available.

For the last years I had a crossbow from Europe, thinking I would have to deal with one or two attackers. But I cannot shot 15 people with a crossbow. Besides it broke last monsoon.

My idea is to get some kind of CO2 pistol with lots of shots (reloading in the dark, coughing from smoke and under fire is not a good idea), and maybe a mixed ammo, like 1 bang then 1 CS gas, then 1 projectile. This because: fighting is indoors and through the windows; I don't have time to reload; I need CS for outside (through the window bars), bang to scare them (they are usually nowhere near as bold as europeans and americans) and a projectile to really hurt someone who dangles from the roof to come in.

Is this a good idea?

Which weapon to get?

Which caliber?

Any suggestions?




red ryder 11-09-2009 10:19 PM

you ever see that dustin hoffman movie "straw dogs"?

bear traps work well.

Fireleg 11-09-2009 10:27 PM

Movie and reality...
No, didn't see it.

But I can't turn my farm into a fortress, because we live here and don't know if and when there would be an attack. If you know they are coming tonight you can put traps all over the place, but if they come in eight months? Then the traps kill your dogs, the gardener and your cousin.

Also you would need to know exactly where they will climb the fence and how they approach the buildings.

orangello 11-09-2009 10:32 PM

Can you not buy a bow & some arrows? If i couldn't have a gun and would be dealing with multiple murderous burglars, i would want a bow. If you cannot buy one, would it be illegal to make one?

When you say you cannot have firearms, what about black powder guns, what about ammunition for a shotgun? What about an agricultural flame thrower running from a propane tank? Perhaps some sprayable agricultural poisons could be put to use in your defense? I would rather be shot by an average air rifle than pelted by a marble from a modern slingshot .

Have you considered relocating to someplace more hospitable? (seriously, not trying to be an ass)

This question seems very odd, almost contrived; no offense, i'm just glad our gun laws aren't that bad. agricultural flame thrower. This doesn't have huge range or anything, but would scare the bejezus out of me.

edit* Of course, you should abide by the laws of your area to the best of your ability while acting only in defense.

You might also consider a good used "gas mask" to help you continue to see, breathe, & fight during smoke or gassy conditions. You will need some advice from a former military person before assuming this would be fully effective.

Fireleg 11-09-2009 11:52 PM

Bows and stuff
Well, I had a crossbow and even that was quite hard to use. I might get a bow just for backup but that would only take care of people outside, not of people in my room.

I need something for close quarters.

The "no guns thing": they are not legal and as a foreigner I would put my visa at stake and thereby all my possessions.

You cannot transfer money out of India like you can out of Europe or USA, so selling and relocating isn't that easy. Besides, if you lived somewhere for quite long you wouldn't leave unless there is a clear and present danger, which is not the case (yet) with these raids. It is just that I want to be prepared if it hits me one night.

flamethrower: that sounds like a dangerous thing to have around and even more having it stand beside your bed. Sometimes we have children playing here and the maid cleaning and such. I don't think I could stand the constant worry about this object.

gas mask... are there easy-on gas masks? It sounds like a good thing to wear but a bad thing to put on in the middle of an ongoing attack. I'd probably rather grab a weapon.

Slingshot: I'll get one. Good idea. But doesn't solve all the problems. Consider the number of attackers: it might force me to take on two or more within seconds after a door breaks.

About contriving: it doesn't sound so odd to me. But I don't take it as an offense. I've heard raiding stories like mine from a couple of countries so far (especially africa). Things like this are only unusual in industrialized countries. But I am being unfair to India also. It's not like there is a raided farm every week. I would still consider it relatively safe. There are other countries where it would be impossible to own a remote farm without firearms and guards. Here it is possible, but I just don't have that inschalllah attitude to just wait for desaster to knock on my door. I want to be prepared.

I asked this question here for a large part, because I have zero gun experience. I would be happy if someone would elaborate a little on things like type of gun, type of ammo, caliber to use, if it is possible to mix ammo so I can have different types alternating without reloading and so on.

orangello 11-10-2009 12:19 AM

So basically, you need a close-quarters defense that doesn't involve a firearm? How are you with a machete? Have you considered some martial arts training? Would a squirt gun full of agricultural poison seem too hazardous (gloves & eye protection a must)? I am certain you could have a more permanent impact with agricultural chemicals than with pepper spray.

I cannot advise you on airguns, as i am not familiar enough with them to know which ones would actually disable an attacker.

Have you inquired of a local attorney as to the legality of blackpowder firearms? They can be quite deadly and loud from what i've seen. I would be surprised if flare guns are illegal; that could be a serious deterrent .

Personally (not to reflect on this forum's management or any other members) i would be more concerned with my life than with my visa. I wish you the very best of luck.

edit* I understand the courts in India are VERY backed up, perhaps you should consider some surveillance systems to capture video evidence for prosecution of these bandits. Electronic surveillance can also be used in conjunction with motion detectors or perimiter alarms that emit confusingly bright lights, piercing sirens, and i've heard that some can activate pepper spray (i've only seen pepper spray for specialty car alarms).

c3shooter 11-10-2009 01:25 AM

You WILL need something for early warning- the sooner you are alerted to an invasion, the better you can respond. Waiting until they aer inside of your dwelling means you have lost all advantage.

The "paintball" gun is typically a CO2 .69 caliber gun, firing marble sized pellets. They are non-lethal, but are available in CS as well as marking paint. If you are planning to use CS, you should have a gas mask for yourself.

If you local laws permit, DO look at black powder muzzleloading arms. Note the plural form I just used. While they CAN be reloaded fairly quickly. having more than one ups the rate of fire nicely- especially if you have a designated loader to help. A smoothbore shotgun loaded with buckshot (lead pellets about 8mm in diameter) is a very effective means of dealing with thugs at close range- 25 yards or less.

DO also consider first aid fire fighting capabilities- and since you seem to be "on yer own, mate"- are there neighbors that you can enter into a mutual aid agreement with? I'll come help you if you will come help me?

A bow with broadhead arrows can be quite deadly- and has a higher rate of fire than a crossbow. Worked for his Majesty's boys for years. Does require practice, and the willingness to use it.

A flare gun can be very useful, and is generally not regulated as a weapon. You will want light on the far side of attackers to illuminate your targets.

For those that want to get close and personal, the Gurkhas have had the solution for some time- Khukuri Palace - New Official khukuri,khukri,kukri supplier to British Gurkha Army,The Real Blade Of Gurkhas

BTW, soap (not detergent- SOAP- such as Ivory Flakes) when added to gasoline makes gas sticky, and burn slower.

red ryder 11-10-2009 01:31 AM

i have a air rifle that i could load with hunting darts. i would say they had close to as much penetration as a .22

if you were a skilled shot with that you could potentially put someone down with that.

skullcrusher 11-10-2009 01:34 AM

If I were in your situation, I would look at all legal means. I thought of homemade cannons (pvc pipe) that you could launch glass or some kind of shrapnel using expanding gasses. Hair spray when ignighted expands rapidly. Just some other thoughts...

SGT-MILLER 11-10-2009 01:45 AM

Obtain a standard bow and arrow (you can hit out to 40 yards with a moderate amount of practice). Ensure you have a quiver that will hold a decent amount of arrows. Set up a backstop (with hay or other like materials), and practice daily.

Also, practice with edged weapons. Long and short knives are extremely deadly if you use them right. You cut the right artery, and the attacker will be unconsious within seconds and dead within a minute. Practice whenever you have spare time.

You will be surprised at how quickly you can loose a volley of accurate arrows after you practice, and you will also be surprised at how effective a knife is when you use it on the right areas of the body (attack the arms first - preferrably the arm with the weapon, then attack the vitals).

Also, learn to fight with your hands, and concentrate on executing good vascular chokes. A vascular choke can be applied many different ways from many different positions/situations. A good vascular(blood) choke will render an attacker unconsious in about 4 seconds, and is the most effective and efficent way to end a fight and move on.

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