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Old 12-13-2012, 12:49 AM   #1
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Default Cheap is good enough

Not accusing the members here or anything, but I have been exposed to a certain snobbishness in the past towards people who choose a gun for price reasons. Personally, I think you can find a good compromise between cost and quality without buying junk, but here is an article from Massad Ayoob that I found interesting -

Cheap guns are good enough

I completely subscribe to the school of thought that the best gun of all time is the one in your hand.

This is something I keep in mind on those occasions when someone asks me about gun purchasing advice. I don't tell them to go out and buy Hi-Points, but you don't need an HK either.

Hell, if all you can afford is a Hi-Point, it's a fair sight better than nothing at all. Not knocking Hi-points, but I'm not a fan of straight blowback for full combat calibers.

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Old 12-13-2012, 01:00 AM   #2
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I like your post.
I have said many times before, buy the best quality you can afford.

What you can afford is probably different than what others can afford.

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Old 12-13-2012, 01:05 AM   #3
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I've got cheap guns and I've got expensive guns. I love them all for what they are. In certain firearms I'm willing to spend more than for other types. To me, for what a shotgun does I just can't see spending a boatload. Pretty much the same thing goes for .22s. My Savage BV or S&W are mid-priced and I can't see spending moe for a higher priced name. I definately see where you get what you pay for when it comes to handguns. I'm willing to pay more to get better handguns for some reason.

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Old 12-13-2012, 01:08 AM   #4
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for the most part i like what you wrote, but i do prefer the term, inexpensive over the word cheap. cheap means, well, cheap. inexpensive means quality at a decent price.

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Old 12-13-2012, 01:24 AM   #5
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I resent the use of the derogatory adjective "cheap"! There are PLENTY of HIGH QUALITY firearms out there at BRAND NEW and REASONABLE PRICES without springing for a bundle of dough like many recommend! Those are pretentious gun snobs that are apparently "rolling in dough" and unlike the majority of us average Joes on a modest budget!

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Old 12-13-2012, 01:32 AM   #6
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If your on a budget for an AR, I recommend Spikes Tactical, PSA and BCM, nothing more noting less and for pistols, my favorite are the Glocks and M&P!!!!!

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Old 12-13-2012, 01:33 AM   #7
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Crazed, I think the biggest element of the snobs is that, well, they are snobs. However, there's the undeniable element within the shooting sports community of, also well, delusional liars. Alot of them. Folks who buy cheap stuff and then act as though it was the best thing ever made. How? By telling you, picking fights, and ganging up. Kinda like Mexican drug cartel members in Brownsville. They're not giving up their turf.

Their guns are perfect for everyone. For everything. Everywhere. Under all circumstances. Innovative. The best made. Best finished. Best materials. Historic. Controllable but the most powerful thing on earth for its size. Accurate. And everyone who doesn't drink the Kool-Aid is an ignorant hater. Case in point: those who buy and become moronic appologetic defenders of everything/anything...

Russian. Example: explain to a Makarov devotee the gun is an obviously cheapened copy of the Walther PP. So was its cartridge design stolen by the Russian Army from Germany at the end of WWII -- we know from which plant and the DATE for God's sake! No? When did the Mosin Nagant become the best thing since sliced bread? When they started selling for $99. Sorry, the "cheapskate" owners, for lack of a better word, are deserving of serious shooters' legitimate scorn and ridicule, IMO, not to be confused with snobbery.

Note also that the person with little money for guns and ammo has less experience with them and recreational shooting on average. That doesn't make them bad people; lying and attacking others does. In fact, who's really more the snob? The experienced guy who can afford a wider variety and more guns, including higher quality arms, as well as ammo and the free time to enjoy them in different ways in varied environments and circumstances, etc., or the "cheapskate" who exagerates (OK, lies) about the inexpensive, maybe the single, arm he owns because he has an emotional and significant-to-him financial investment in it along with a bad case of Napolean Complex? I put it to you it is the latter.

PS: Pitt -- obviously you never priced a BCM.

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Old 12-13-2012, 01:37 AM   #8
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I think the common view of "cheap" is fairly universal but unfairly applied. Yes, there is a big difference between inexpensive and cheap, but even so the truly cheap guns have their place. I would never trust my life to a Phoenix Arms but I know someone who does. They could afford better but don't want to pay more for a gun. You know, at least they have something.

I would love an HK 45 and I can also afford one, but I went with something I consider mid-range. Simply because I couldn't justify the price tag and had other firearms I was going to purchase. I passed on cheaper options though because I wanted to be sure about the quality of the gun I was purchasing.

I do get a little irked, maybe unfairly, when someone says a gun is "Only $500". For most people that represents a lot of money. That may not be a lot relatively speaking in terms of firearms but as a general purchase it is pricey. More than most consumer electronics these days.

I definitely try to frame cost in any recommendation. I tell people to expect to pay $500 but that good guns can be had for less if they're willing to go for what I call "non-Hollywood" brands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
However, there's the undeniable element within the shooting sports community of, also well, delusional liars.
True enough. I think some people want to defend their choice because they don't want to admit maybe they chose poorly, couldn't afford better, or can't come to grips that maybe their gun isn't perfect.

Frankly, I think that is foolish and builds a false sense of security. Getting to know a guns strengths AND weaknesses is fundamental to me. I am very picky about my firearm purchases and love all my guns, but not a one of them are perfect.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
Crazed, I think the biggest element of the snobs is that, well, they are snobs. However, there's the undeniable element within the shooting sports community of, also well, delusional liars. Alot of them. Folks who buy cheap stuff and then act as though it was the best thing ever made. How? By telling you, picking fights, and ganging up. Kinda like Mexican drug cartel members in Brownsville. They're not giving up their turf.

Their guns are perfect for everyone. For everything. Everywhere. Under all circumstances. Innovative. The best made. Best finished. best materials. Historic. Powerful. Controllable. Super accurate. And everyone who doesn't drink the Kool-Aid is an ignorant hater. Case in point: those who buy and become moronic appologetic defenders of everything/anything...

Russian. Example: explain to a Makarov devotee the gun is an obviously cheapened copy of the Walther PP. So was its cartridge design stolen by the Russian Army from Germany at the end of during WWII -- we know from which plant and the DATE for God's sake! No? When did the Mosin Nagant become the best thing since sliced bread? When they started selling for $99. Sorry, the "cheapskate" owners, for lack of a better word, are deserving of serious shooters' legitimate scorn and ridicule, IMO, not to be confused with snobbery.

In fact, who's really more the snob? The guy who prefers quality arms or the cheapskate who exagerates (OK, lies) about the inexpensive arm he owns because he has an emotional and financial investment in it along with a bad case of Napolean Complex?

PS: Pitt -- obviously you never priced a BCM.
have to agree with most of your post Hock. but nothing wrong with an inexpensive firearm as long as you know it's limitations. some are actually even fun to shoot as well. there are some that are inexpensive that are well made but very decently priced. some that come to mind are Mossberg, Savage, Marlin, RIA, American Classic, ect., ect.,,,,,

the relative term is a person's budget. what's inexpensive to one person, may be high dollar to another. when a person sets out to buy a particular firearm for a particular need or intended use, their budget is usually the defining factor.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazedJava View Post
I think the common view of "cheap" is fairly universal but unfairly applied. Yes, there is a big difference between inexpensive and cheap, but even so the truly cheap guns have their place. I would never trust my life to a Phoenix Arms but I know someone who does. They could afford better but don't want to pay more for a gun. You know, at least they have something.

I would love an HK 45 and I can also afford one, but I went with something I consider mid-range. Simply because I couldn't justify the price tag and had other firearms I was going to purchase. I passed on cheaper options though because I wanted to be sure about the quality of the gun I was purchasing.

I do get a little irked, maybe unfairly, when someone says a gun is "Only $500". For most people that represents a lot of money. That may not be a lot relatively speaking in terms of firearms but as a general purchase it is pricey. More than most consumer electronics these days.

I definitely try to frame cost in any recommendation. I tell people to expect to pay $500 but that good guns can be had for less if they're willing to go for what I call "non-Hollywood" brands.



True enough. I think some people want to defend their choice because they don't want to admit maybe they chose poorly, couldn't afford better, or can't come to grips that maybe their gun isn't perfect.

Frankly, I think that is foolish and builds a false sense of security. Getting to know a guns strengths AND weaknesses is fundamental to me. I am very picky about my firearm purchases and love all my guns, but not a one of them are perfect.
like i said before, a person's budget defines what they will be able to afford. the lesser the budget, sometimes the lesser the choices within that budget.

for example, if a person can only afford to spend say, $300 for a SD firearm for home protection, the choices are limited. but they can find a quality firearm that fits within that budget. there is also the option of looking a used quality firearm as well. sometimes you have to get out and look to see what's available, such as pawn shops and used firearms at the gun stores.

i do buy inexpensive firearms, but would never buy a cheap firearm!
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