Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > General Handgun Discussion > cheap .22

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2013, 11:12 PM   #61
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Houston,Texas
Posts: 252
Liked 123 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 364

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralPatton View Post
What you are failing to realize, is that you are recommending weapons made from the same crap materials.

*You think I'm a gun snob because I refuse to sit back and watch people give piss poor advice on the worst handguns made. Just because the rest of the folks reading this don't want to get involved in this doesn't mean they don't agree. I'm not the only poster who has said these are crap. I think HiPoint makes junk as well, but at least their junk isn't likely to kill someone unintentionally.*

*An excert from a fellow unfortunate enough to find out after purchase.
"My wife asked for a carry pistol. Mine is a .22lr and I decided to get the same caliber for her. (caliber isn't the issue here, no need to talk about that)*

You are dead wrong! Caliber IS the issue! The topic is CHEAP .22's!

*At a gun show I picked up a Jennings .22 SA. It was pretty much a trade and I don't really have any money involved. I didn't study the gun very much but the trade only involved a $45.00 item I had paid almost nothing for originally. I took it home fired some test rounds through, reloaded and locked in the safe until wifey gets or carry permit. A couple years later she still hasn't gotten the permit. I recently took it out to shoot and clean. Would not function at all. I mean not at all. It wouldn't shoot, I couldn't pull the slide.*

By your own admission in your own words you have admitted to 'test firing' this pistol, reloading it, and then putting said pistol into your safe where you neglected it for several years! Apparently without cleaning it, or oiling it, or taking it out to just wipe the dust off of it for whatever reason.

*By nothing, I mean nothing. So yesterday I, very carefully, (live round in chamber) started disassembling. What I discovered borders on horrific. This has to be one of the poorest designed, most cheaply made guns I have ever seen.*

No, what is horrifying is that you disassembled this weapon with a live round in the chamber. A compentent gunsmith would have soaked the weapon in light penetrating oil to render the round inert before attempting to disassemble it.
What makes you an expert in the design of pistols? How many have you designed? How many have you manufactured?

*Everything flimsy and loose fitting. The problem was caused by rough edges of the grip inlay interfering with the safety lever and the flimsy actuating spring it operates. The fix was simple. I told a gunsmith friend about this and he was not surprised. Over the years he has replaced hundreds of firing pins on this model but won't do it anymore. He now refuses to even take them into the shop. This model is sold under many names. Jennings and Raven are just two. I know this is America but it seems some sort of quality standards should exist. Do avoid these junkers they are, IMHO, dangerous. *

You are correct, it IS your opinion.

*Is this the mistreated type you speak of? The one that isn't cared for hence it's failure? Sure doesn't sound that way. Gun Smith refuses to accept them for repair work.*

I know several gunsmiths that aren't so proud as to not work on any weapon. Want me set you up with them?

*What else do you need to show you the writing on the wall? Do you need to see picture of peoples mangled hands? Or graves of those killed "accidentally" by those weapons?*

Again, you are talking about apples and bananas.

9mm's and .380's are not .22 calibers. None of these .22's have blown up without a blocked barrel.


That's real good advice. Real good. You should be ashamed of yourself.
You still haven't explained to MY satisfaction why I should feel ashamed...

eldar
__________________
eldarbeast is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 11:14 PM   #62
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Houston,Texas
Posts: 252
Liked 123 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 364

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralPatton View Post
No, the issue is that I understand all to well. I owned a Jennings .22 It was the biggest POS on earth. It was in function working order with no issues, then started double and even triple firing with one pull of the trigger. I learned my lesson because no one told me any better. And after that, I decided to help others avoid the mistake I had made.

And if someone walks into the room and agrees with the village idiot, that doesn't make them intelligent. It just means perhaps there are now two village idiots walking around.
Welcome to the club, GeneralPatton.

eldar
__________________
eldarbeast is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 02:46 AM   #63
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,036
Liked 99 Times on 83 Posts
Likes Given: 42

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldarbeast View Post
Welcome to the club, GeneralPatton.

eldar
This actually made me chuckle. Seeing as I'm the only one riding this pony all the way through the show, and no one has yet saddled up with me, it leaves that statement above open to multiple interpretations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldarbeast
*You think I'm a gun snob because I refuse to sit back and watch people give piss poor advice on the worst handguns made. Just because the rest of the folks reading this don't want to get involved in this doesn't mean they don't agree. I'm not the only poster who has said these are crap. I think HiPoint makes junk as well, but at least their junk isn't likely to kill someone unintentionally.*

*An excert from a fellow unfortunate enough to find out after purchase.
"My wife asked for a carry pistol. Mine is a .22lr and I decided to get the same caliber for her. (caliber isn't the issue here, no need to talk about that)*

You are dead wrong! Caliber IS the issue! The topic is CHEAP .22's!

This is an excert of another poster on another forum. Picking it apart serves no functional purpose in this forum

*At a gun show I picked up a Jennings .22 SA. It was pretty much a trade and I don't really have any money involved. I didn't study the gun very much but the trade only involved a $45.00 item I had paid almost nothing for originally. I took it home fired some test rounds through, reloaded and locked in the safe until wifey gets or carry permit. A couple years later she still hasn't gotten the permit. I recently took it out to shoot and clean. Would not function at all. I mean not at all. It wouldn't shoot, I couldn't pull the slide.*

By your own admission in your own words you have admitted to 'test firing' this pistol, reloading it, and then putting said pistol into your safe where you neglected it for several years! Apparently without cleaning it, or oiling it, or taking it out to just wipe the dust off of it for whatever reason.

Again, still the other poster in the other forum. However, I have stored many weapons after a proper cleaning and lubrication for many years, then taken them to the range without ever having an issue. That's what you get when you buy something that has a decent level of quality.

*By nothing, I mean nothing. So yesterday I, very carefully, (live round in chamber) started disassembling. What I discovered borders on horrific. This has to be one of the poorest designed, most cheaply made guns I have ever seen.*

No, what is horrifying is that you disassembled this weapon with a live round in the chamber. A compentent gunsmith would have soaked the weapon in light penetrating oil to render the round inert before attempting to disassemble it. What makes you an expert in the design of pistols? How many have you designed? How many have you manufactured?


You can pose all the questions in the world, that poster isn't from this forum. I cannot answer for someone else as to why they do the things they do. We can shred his logic down to the most infinite small levels, we'll never get an answer.

*Everything flimsy and loose fitting. The problem was caused by rough edges of the grip inlay interfering with the safety lever and the flimsy actuating spring it operates. The fix was simple. I told a gunsmith friend about this and he was not surprised. Over the years he has replaced hundreds of firing pins on this model but won't do it anymore. He now refuses to even take them into the shop. This model is sold under many names. Jennings and Raven are just two. I know this is America but it seems some sort of quality standards should exist. Do avoid these junkers they are, IMHO, dangerous. *

You are correct, it IS your opinion.

No, it's not my opinion. It's the opinion of someone who purchased a piece of junk and found out later when he wanted to use it. I posted it as an "Example" of others who have learned the same way I did what a worthless turd is made by those manufacturers.

*Is this the mistreated type you speak of? The one that isn't cared for hence it's failure? Sure doesn't sound that way. Gun Smith refuses to accept them for repair work.*

I know several gunsmiths that aren't so proud as to not work on any weapon. Want me set you up with them?

Now that we have returned to dissecting my post I will respond. I use quality smith's who don't work on something that has an inherent failure rate so great that they go bankrupt from lawsuits, which would put said smith at risk for taking on a job where the quality of materials used to create the device could fail after the smiths work, exposing him to liabilities resulting from failures that weren't even related to his work.

*What else do you need to show you the writing on the wall? Do you need to see picture of peoples mangled hands? Or graves of those killed "accidentally" by those weapons?*

Again, you are talking about apples and bananas.

No, I'm talking about Bryco, Lorcin, Jennings, Jimenez, and all other incarnations of the subpar, low quality pot metal guns they created and all brands they will create in the future to attempt to dupe the public into thinking it's not the same POS rebranded and bound to get shutdown, yet again (for the 6th time) due to the substandard quality control standards.

9mm's and .380's are not .22 calibers. None of these .22's have blown up without a blocked barrel.


Here's a piece from GUN TESTS magazine on two of the .22's in question
"Lorcin L-22:
"Some of our shooters liked the way the Lorcin L-22 felt in the hand, but we wouldn't pay any amount of money for a gun that self-destructs in a couple of hundred rounds. Stay away from this one."
May 1996"

"Bryco Arms J-22:
"Considering this Bryco Arms' low price, we weren't expecting the J-22 to be much of a performer. However, we did expect it to function much better than it did. Due to the large number of malfunctions we encountered with this pistol, we cannot recommend it."
May 1996 "

There are so many negative posts from known industry leaders and testers, I can't even begin to post them all here.




That's real good advice. Real good. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I have no doubt you filled in the starred info to make my response more labor intensive for me. I am undeterred. If you haven't yet had enough reason to feel ashamed, then I shall give you the absolute reason and if you don't thereafter, you have no soul as a human being.

http://brandonsarms.org/bryco.php

Go there, and read about the little boy named Brandon who is paralyzed for LIFE thanks to the substandard processes, materials and completed firearms used to create those handguns. Read all the links on the top, the home page-the kids story-bruce Jennings and bryco-the lawsuit-the selloff of assets-and in the news. And after you read that, if you still maintain your stance then I have a far better understand of you as a person.

For those who don't wish to spend the time reading it all, here are a few of the highlights.

On May 13, 2003, after two months of trial, the Alameda County California Superior Court entered a judgment of approximately $24 million against Bruce Jennings, Bryco Arms, and B.L. Jennings, Inc. The judgment was based on a unanimous jury verdict finding the Bryco pistol defective in design, and a partial cause of Brandon Maxfield's total damages of approximately $51 million.

Since last year’s unanimous $50.9 million jury award to Brandon Maxfield, Bryco Arms has been playing a shell game with its assets to avoid paying for Brandon’s health care while simultaneously attempting to reorganize under a new name. On August 12, 2005, the company and its founder Bruce Jennings were successful. Bryco Arms’ plant manager Paul Jimenez offered the highest bid of $510,000 (significantly higher than the original $150,000 Bryco proposed as a fair price to Jimenez) for Bryco’s gun making equipment and 75,000 defective guns.

http://brandonsarms.org/inthenews/releases/news041018.php
That is a link to a news report which found that Bruce Jennings fronted former employee Paul Jimenez nearly half a million dollars to regain control of the company from Federal Bankruptcy proceedings. Why let your cash cow go when you can play the shell company game and keep providing substandard low price murder weapons to those who can't legally buy one?

And I can imagine, yet again, you'll have some less than witty comeback with how none of that is relevant. It's really sad that some folks can't read plain old black and white. The maneuvers alone that Mr Jennings has had to jump through to maintain his cash cow shows the true source that our Government should be trying to ban. But as long as uneducated people continue to blindly defend their products, they'll keep producing them sending them out into the world where they'll be used mainly in straw purchases to get criminals guns, which end up in the hands of someone who knows little about firearms or quality and someone else ends up with a life altering disability or a dead relative. That's why you should be ashamed of yourself, and it's a character daming reason if there ever was one.
__________________

A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future.
- General George Patton Jr


Last edited by GeneralPatton; 02-13-2013 at 02:50 AM.
GeneralPatton is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 06:57 AM   #64
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BeyondTheBox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,479
Liked 257 Times on 227 Posts

Default

Doobie doobie doo. Man do I want to impart truth here. But deaf is blind and ignorance is stupidity and Pat is all the above. Sad excuse for a human being indeed. Please mods, boot him immediately, or me so I never have to put up with another second of his worthlessness again... Make it me, I can't figure out how to delete my account, have been trying for a few days.

__________________

Last edited by BeyondTheBox; 02-13-2013 at 07:06 AM.
BeyondTheBox is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 12:41 AM   #65
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,036
Liked 99 Times on 83 Posts
Likes Given: 42

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondTheBox View Post
Doobie doobie doo. Man do I want to impart truth here. But deaf is blind and ignorance is stupidity and Pat is all the above. Sad excuse for a human being indeed. Please mods, boot him immediately, or me so I never have to put up with another second of his worthlessness again... Make it me, I can't figure out how to delete my account, have been trying for a few days.
Perhaps I can convince them to throw you a parade for your departure.
Your quest to have someone "kicked" for stating facts and offering opinions as per the request of the post, is why people such as you aren't mods. Moderators are just that. Given you don't like my facts or opinions, I'll offer you the definition of Moderator
1. a person or thing that moderates.
2. a person who presides over a panel discussion on radio or television.
3. a presiding officer, as at a public forum, a legislative body, or an ecclesiastical body in the Presbyterian Church.

The purpose of such is not to intervene, but to maintain peaceful debate of substance on the topic at hand. At this point, there has been no reason for an intervention into topic as it has maintained a reasonable level of peace and has excellent information with sources cited. Perhaps you should learn a bit more about debate since you won't have to waste your time on here after you delete your account
__________________

A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future.
- General George Patton Jr

GeneralPatton is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 03:55 AM   #66
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
locutus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 8,364
Liked 4718 Times on 2693 Posts
Likes Given: 3735

Default

[QUOTE=GeneralPatton;1135334]This actually made me chuckle. Seeing as I'm the only one riding this pony all the way through the show, and no one has yet saddled up with me,t ileaves that statement above open to multiple interpretations.




See post#39 and#59

locutus is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 11:27 AM   #67
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
qwiksdraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 317
Liked 109 Times on 77 Posts
Likes Given: 40

Default

This started out with a question on finding an inexpensive .22 for the OP's Mom. It would give me a cerebral hematoma to go back a read again to find out how it got here.

To get back on track for the OP, let me suggest a Bersa Thunder 22 has a good option for an affordable and reliable semi auto pistol. For a good revolver, look at the Heritage Arms Rough Rider which you can find with barrel lengths of 3.5", 4.75" and 6".

__________________
qwiksdraw is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 11:35 AM   #68
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
HOSSFLY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lufkin,Tx
Posts: 6,904
Liked 2149 Times on 1450 Posts
Likes Given: 1172

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwiksdraw View Post
This started out with a question on finding an inexpensive .22 for the OP's Mom. It would give me a cerebral hematoma to go back a read again to find out how it got here.

To get back on track for the OP, let me suggest a Bersa Thunder 22 has a good option for an affordable and reliable semi auto pistol. For a good revolver, look at the Heritage Arms Rough Rider which you can find with barrel lengths of 3.5", 4.75" and 6".
Awwwww, we'll try harder next time
__________________

Texan By Birth & Choice
USMC/VIET NAM VET

HOSSFLY is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 02:21 PM   #69
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
FrontierTCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 566
Liked 203 Times on 132 Posts

Default

If I were the OP and simply started this thread to get some advice from a group of people that may have more knowledge on a subject than I do, then came back and read all of this childish bickering I would "run not walk to the nearest exit"

To thee OP. It's not always like this I swear. LOL

As for the .22, my suggestion is to check into the Ruger Mark III. I recently bought one for around $300.00 and they a quality built. Also Ruger has a good reputation for customer service should something go wrong.

__________________
FrontierTCB is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 04:18 PM   #70
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,036
Liked 99 Times on 83 Posts
Likes Given: 42

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrontierTCB View Post
If I were the OP and simply started this thread to get some advice from a group of people that may have more knowledge on a subject than I do, then came back and read all of this childish bickering I would "run not walk to the nearest exit"

To thee OP. It's not always like this I swear. LOL

As for the .22, my suggestion is to check into the Ruger Mark III. I recently bought one for around $300.00 and they a quality built. Also Ruger has a good reputation for customer service should something go wrong.
Everything you would "run" from is information trying to show him that some of the suggestions made are extremely unsafe and risk bodily injury when used. I wouldn't stand aside while someone told him to buy his mother something dangerous. I would expect the same from anyone else.
__________________

A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future.
- General George Patton Jr

GeneralPatton is offline  
locutus Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
I'm cheap... DFENS .22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion 22 01-17-2013 01:20 PM