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Old 02-10-2013, 09:26 PM   #41
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Keep in mind the old Italian proverb:

"Cheapa U buy, cheapa U get."

And yes, Jennings, Bryco, Phoenix etc are junk. Sorry, but that's the truth.
No that's your "truth", opinion. That's the truth, fact.

One man's junk... and all. Just saying.

I love my little Jimenezes and Phoenix! They sometimes require a little port and polish, sometimes picky with ammo (many guns are), but they are reliable and trustworthy plinkers once broken in. My Jimenez in 9mm was a beast out of the box, ate everything I put thru it and accurate as could be. Took the 1k I put thru it and never as much as kickuped. Have to my brother who wanted something to go plinking with occasionally.

Did they have issues under other names model numbers, yup. Frames cracked, a couple had slides fly off during operation due to a plastic Takedown button that would break under pressure of larger caliber. They fixed this with alloy Takedown and I've yet to hear of a new model with any such issues.

How many manufacturers have put out an item that had some sort of function flaw which caused inability to use or recalled parts? How many have had failing magazines known for dropping out during firing? Plenty!

People just love to hate these SNS and blow things way out of proportion because of their intentional ignorance to them. The facts are undeniable, these brands are made with much less quality both in design and material. They have a much higher propensity to fail and have issues. They aren't the wisest thing to trust your life to, but as a plinker, bang for buck is defined by them! They will go bang, they will put a smile on your face and they will last as long as something that price should, and longer.

But to each their own. Internet ignorance will always exist and so will its infectiousness. Believe what you want and enjoy it for as long as you can. Wear eye and eat protection and you'll be a happy, healthy shooter!
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:51 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by GeneralPatton View Post
Bryco-The first incarnation of the pot metal pistol
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2370/bryco59brokenframe.jpg
Lorcin-Same gun different name
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/647/brokenlorcin.png

Oh and, let us cite the ATF

BRYCO ARMS
Model Jennings Nine, (including the JA_NINE by Jimenez)
9mm LUGER caliber Semiautomatic Pistol

WARNING: These pistols may create an EXTREMELY DANGEROUS CONDITION and a POTENTIAL FOR SERIOUS INJURY by firing without pulling the trigger.

During the testing of a Bryco Arms, Jennings Nine pistol by a forensic firearms examiner it was noted that it would fire upon release of the thumb safety and spontaneously fire in a FULL AUTO MODE on an inconsistent bases. When loaded with the manual thumb safety in the “safe” position, if the trigger of the submitted firearm has been pulled stiffly a few times, the firearm will discharge when the thumb safety is moved to the “fire” position.

Disassembly of the pistol revealed some wear/damage to the sear which allows slight downward movement when the trigger is pulled. It appears due to the wear/damage the sear/striker engagement is reduced allowing the striker to override the sear after the thumb safety is released.

MANUALLY UNLOADING THIS PISTOL MAY BE VERY DANGEROUS SINCE IT COULD DISCHARGE DURING THIS PROCEDURE.

Source:

AFTE Journal, Spring 2001

The facts speak well enough for themselves. I don't care for Hi Point either, but I'd say buy a Hi Point before anything designed by Bryco. At least it won't explode in your hand
You and your 'vast amount of experience' is busted by the example you've chosen to show here.

Everybody else is discussing .22 caliber weapons and your example of a dangerous weapon is a 9mm.

Get with the program. The OP asked about .22 cal weapons, NOT 9mm...

And several have offered different makes and models, all .22 caliber EXCEPT you.

If you've had difficulty with a manufacturer and a caliber larger than .22 caliber, thanks for bringing it to our attention. BUT stick with the subject on hand.

.22 caliber.

I have been shooting firearms since 1963. I served in the Navy from 1974 thru 1987. I have been a NRA certified instructor (pistol) and (shotgun) during the 1980's. I have managed and operated a 25 yard indoor range during the same time frame. I have owned more than 400 weapons during my life and fired many more to include fully automatic submachine pistols, submachine guns, light machineguns and medium machineguns.

So what, you say. Fair enough.

I have also owned some of the weapons you deem as trash. I happen to like these cheap POS. When you keep them clean and use the proper ammunition as specified by the manufacturer, they do well enough.

The high dollar weapons have their failures also. With the same results ~ mangled fingers, eye damage, even loss of life.

Accidents don't care who they attach themselves to.

The point I am making to the OP, is to take your time before you select a weapon. Research them carefully. Try them out if you can before you buy them. Then, based on your means and the best information you've assembled, make your selection and follow the manufacturer's instructions and you'll seldom go wrong.

eldar

PS Walther .22's have their problems as well.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:15 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by BeyondTheBox View Post
No that's your "truth", opinion. That's the truth, fact.

One man's junk... and all. Just saying.

I love my little Jimenezes and Phoenix! They sometimes require a little port and polish, sometimes picky with ammo (many guns are), but they are reliable and trustworthy plinkers once broken in. My Jimenez in 9mm was a beast out of the box, ate everything I put thru it and accurate as could be. Took the 1k I put thru it and never as much as kickuped. Have to my brother who wanted something to go plinking with occasionally.

Did they have issues under other names model numbers, yup. Frames cracked, a couple had slides fly off during operation due to a plastic Takedown button that would break under pressure of larger caliber. They fixed this with alloy Takedown and I've yet to hear of a new model with any such issues.

How many manufacturers have put out an item that had some sort of function flaw which caused inability to use or recalled parts? How many have had failing magazines known for dropping out during firing? Plenty!

People just love to hate these SNS and blow things way out of proportion because of their intentional ignorance to them. The facts are undeniable, these brands are made with much less quality both in design and material. They have a much higher propensity to fail and have issues. They aren't the wisest thing to trust your life to, but as a plinker, bang for buck is defined by them! They will go bang, they will put a smile on your face and they will last as long as something that price should, and longer.

But to each their own. Internet ignorance will always exist and so will its infectiousness. Believe what you want and enjoy it for as long as you can. Wear eye and eat protection and you'll be a happy, healthy shooter!
I've taken enough of these off of gang-bangers, druggies, and other pukes to have an idea of what they're like. I' ve also test fired quite a few used in crimes.

More power to you if you like them, but I'll pass.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:36 AM   #44
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Look at any gun in the ruger mk series i have several ranging from the original ruger before they started calling them the mk series to the new 22/45 lite they came out with recently all of which are excellent

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Old 02-11-2013, 02:14 AM   #45
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I've taken enough of these off of gang-bangers, druggies, and other pukes to have an idea of what they're like. I' ve also test fired quite a few used in crimes.

More power to you if you like them, but I'll pass.
The FBI has reported about the deadliness of the .22 caliber in several reports. More people die from being shot with a .22 than any other caliber.

The caliber is not known to be a 'manstopper' by any stretch of the imagination, but in many cases, the mere presentation of a firearm sends perpertrators packing to find an easier (and safer) target elsewhere.

Just remember to follow up your defense by reporting it to the LEO's.

eldar
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:17 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by eldarbeast View Post

The FBI has reported about the deadliness of the .22 caliber in several reports. More people die from being shot with a .22 than any other caliber.

The caliber is not known to be a 'manstopper' by any stretch of the imagination, but in many cases, the mere presentation of a fireams sends perpertrators packing to find an easier (and safer) target elsewhere.

Just remember to follow up your defense by reporting it to the LEO's.

eldar
Not untrue, but for those cases where a barrel doesn't scare them, I want something that I can trust to both create bigger holes and have centerfire reliability. Personally of course.

However not much of this matters, I'm pretty sure the OP just wants to get mom something she can plink off the back porch with... ahhhhh don't we all! ;D
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:21 AM   #47
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Not untrue, but for those cases where a barrel doesn't scare them, I want something that I can trust to both create bigger holes and have centerfire reliability. Personally of course.

However not much of this matters, I'm pretty sure the OP just wants to get mom something she can plink off the back porch with... ahhhhh don't we all! ;D
If you are afraid of a misfire, then purchase one of the myriad of multishot revolvers available on the market...

Hi-Standard, S&W, H&R, Taurus and many others have produced and still produce 7, 8 and 9 shot revolvers chambered for .22 and .22 Magnum.

eldar
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:25 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by eldarbeast View Post

If you are afraid of a misfire, then purchase one of the myriad of multishot revolvers available on the market...

Hi-Standard, S&W, H&R, Taurus and many others have produced and still produce 7, 8 and 9 shot revolvers chambered for .22 and .22 Magnum.

eldar
I don't do Revolvers, ever. But I'm not looking. ;D
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:41 PM   #49
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You and your 'vast amount of experience' is busted by the example you've chosen to show here.

Everybody else is discussing .22 caliber weapons and your example of a dangerous weapon is a 9mm.

Get with the program. The OP asked about .22 cal weapons, NOT 9mm...

And several have offered different makes and models, all .22 caliber EXCEPT you.

If you've had difficulty with a manufacturer and a caliber larger than .22 caliber, thanks for bringing it to our attention. BUT stick with the subject on hand.

.22 caliber.

I have been shooting firearms since 1963. I served in the Navy from 1974 thru 1987. I have been a NRA certified instructor (pistol) and (shotgun) during the 1980's. I have managed and operated a 25 yard indoor range during the same time frame. I have owned more than 400 weapons during my life and fired many more to include fully automatic submachine pistols, submachine guns, light machineguns and medium machineguns.

So what, you say. Fair enough.

I have also owned some of the weapons you deem as trash. I happen to like these cheap POS. When you keep them clean and use the proper ammunition as specified by the manufacturer, they do well enough.

The high dollar weapons have their failures also. With the same results ~ mangled fingers, eye damage, even loss of life.

Accidents don't care who they attach themselves to.

The point I am making to the OP, is to take your time before you select a weapon. Research them carefully. Try them out if you can before you buy them. Then, based on your means and the best information you've assembled, make your selection and follow the manufacturer's instructions and you'll seldom go wrong.

eldar

PS Walther .22's have their problems as well.
So, you ignorantly ignore post #20 where I recommended not one, but THREE different .22's that are quality made weapons and so much more dependable than a pot metal throw down but yet at the end of your post, admit your stupidity and show that you did read post #20 and say that Walther's have their share of problems. So which is it? Not to mention that I also agreed with anther poster on his suggestion of a revolver. You could have 1000 years of experience, it wouldn't matter if you are ignorant. The posts I made were to show the OP that the weapons made by those manufacturers are made with subpar materials, aka soft alloys, which have caused such horrendous accidents that the BATFE has issued a letter of warning. Those 9mm pistols are made with the same crap metal as the others. the .380 has had the same problems, and the .22 is the same metal, same makers, same junk that can unintentionally fire and cause serious injury or death. I will NEVER sit by and watch someone recommend someone else buy that piece of dog chit trash for their mother, brother, neighbor or anyone without providing them the education they need. And if you are an NRA instructor, you are part of the problem and they need to revoke your certificate if you still certified for your failure to do your job, educate people to do the right thing. I don't give a dam what you have owned. I don't give a dam about your boasting on an internet forum. The FACT is those are junk. The FACT is they have killed people with malfunctions. The FACT is that a properly maintained weapon has a chance of failure that is so statistically low it's rarely worth discussing and those pieces of garbage have a chance of failing that is so high that they've been put out of business 4 times. The FACTS speak volumes, and your ignorance of them does as well.

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Originally Posted by beyondthebox
No that's your "truth", opinion. That's the truth, fact.

Did they have issues under other names model numbers, yup. Frames cracked, a couple had slides fly off during operation due to a plastic Takedown button that would break under pressure of larger caliber. They fixed this with alloy Takedown and I've yet to hear of a new model with any such issues.

How many manufacturers have put out an item that had some sort of function flaw which caused inability to use or recalled parts? How many have had failing magazines known for dropping out during firing? Plenty!

Internet ignorance will always exist and so will its infectiousness.
The first line. It's not his opinion, it's a fact and has been shown to be so by the ATF, the courts, and the bankruptcies those companies keep having to file.

The second lines. They haven't fixed anything. They are still pot metal. Add one decent alloy, and move the stress to another part of the gun and yet again fail. Again, the bankruptcies from lawsuits continue to state the facts.

The third lines. Lots of manufacturers of many products have recalls. It happens every so often no matter the testing. The difference is they don't file bankruptcy, change names and addresses and reopen selling the EXACT SAME PIECE OF CHIT. They learn from their mistakes and correct them. Hence why they have been in business for over 100 years, not 5 years under a new incarnation.

The amount of ignorance on the topic here is astonishing. Anyone that would recommend that trash is the type that continues to propagate for those subpar weapons which continue to cause unnecessary deaths which in turn, continue to give more reasons to the anti-gun lobby to continue fighting for a complete ban on weapons due to the unintended deaths caused therein. It's those few that cause the rest of us to have to fight vehemently for our continued rights to own, and shoot our weapons.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:50 PM   #50
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I don't do Revolvers, ever. But I'm not looking. ;D
Then you don't know what you are missing.

Life is too short to deny yourself enjoyment at every opportunity you can find...

Revolvers are one of those opportunities.

No messing with pesky magazines, having to make adjustments on the triggers, loading those pesky magazines, trying to decide what kind of sights to mount on your semi-auto pistol, etc etc...

Revolvers come in three favours ~ fixed sights, adjustable sights, or scoped.
Loading is as easy as opening the gate and pushing out the rounds one at a time, then reloading one at a time (Single Actioned), or pushing the release and cylinder out, then pushing the ejection rod, then either using a speed loader, or moon clips, or putting in the bullets one or two at a time (Double Actioned).

Many revolvers can be fired double action or single actioned. Loading different types of rounds (rated for the revolver) is interchangable ~ rat shot, buck and ball, wadcutters, jacketed hollow points and full metal case.

And cleaning a revolver is an enjoyment upon itself! No disassemble of the weapon, no lost springs or missing pins, just pust the cleaning rod through the barrel and cylinders with cleaning solution, gentle brushing of the cylinder faces, a dry patch or two, then a lightly oiled patch. Viola!

See? Way more fun than you thought!

eldar
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