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Old 10-24-2012, 06:41 PM   #11
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They are very very very heavy and extremely large guns. 45 is a good compromise. 357 in a usable barrel length is very wide difficult to conceal. The snubby 357 are more inline with the 38spl for usable energy. It just needs that barrel length to get moving good.

45 as i see it is the next best thing.

I do carry a 380acp at times due to the need to be ultra discrete. The first rule of self defense is have a gun. Second rule have one in the largest caliber you can manage. If your comfy with 9mm or 40 or whatever its better that a bare fist.

My point is that i take exception to pincus is he is, in my opinion, laying out a lot of bogus info.

An off center hit with a 357 is still a 357 hole. 454 is 45 and 500 is half inch.

You can do what ya want im not going to beat you up or think less of anyone for using a 9mm. My wife uses a 9mm she is more comfy and accurate with it than with the exact same gun in 45.

Im just stating my personal reasoning and why i do what i do. Just dont let an expert in the business of selling stuff be your final say.

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Old 10-24-2012, 08:48 PM   #12
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If we're talking about shooting faster we should carry .22's we can get a whole lot of rounds on target with almost zero recoil.

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Old 10-24-2012, 09:05 PM   #13
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Also a fan of .45acp here; screw the metric system.

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A typical armed encounter is violent quick fast dirty and seldom if ever more than one hit by either side lands.
This reminds me of some dates i've had.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:57 PM   #14
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Jon, anything you can't stop with a 9MM, you won't stop with a .45 either.

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Old 10-30-2012, 07:52 PM   #15
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Jon, anything you can't stop with a 9MM, you won't stop with a .45 either.
Agreed, there are records of various calibers requiring multiple shots on an attacker especially with an altered state of consciousness.

Though be careful, the metric system scares some people. Haha!
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:16 PM   #16
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Op

After 17 years of daily CCW I've reached a similar conclusion.

I began in the .45 ACP only club and carried nothing but 1911's for the first 10 years until the realities of work attire changed and effectively concealing anything with a full size grip became problematic.

I spent about a year carrying an NA Guardian .380 before deciding I had no faith in that caliber.

Ultimately I settled on 9 MM because I had to have a gun I could conceal 100% under a tucked in button down shirt. At the time, "4 years ago" the two available pistols that fit my size profile and were chambered for a major caliber were the Kahr PM 9 and the Rohbar..."Spelling?"

At 620 for the Kahr and 1k for the RO ...I opted for the Kahr and have been quite happy with it's performance and concealability.

My bedside gun is a Sig 226 in .40 and is a great pistol but I would not want .40 in compact for the same reasons you discovered.

Tack

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Old 10-30-2012, 10:50 PM   #17
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The 357 is a wonderful manstopper as long as you don't have to worry about collateral damage. I wouldn't want to be behind the BG if he gets nailed with a 357. Funny how the swat team and special forces guys don't seem to care for the 9mm they always seem to be carrying 45's. The average number of rounds fired in a civilian vs. BG gunfight is 4 so magazine capacity isn't much of a factor. Stick with the 45 cause shooting twice is just silly.

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Old 10-30-2012, 11:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus View Post
Jon, anything you can't stop with a 9MM, you won't stop with a .45 either.
thats not the reason why. the bigger hole is why i carry a 45. more liquid loss means the goblin ceases aggression faster. pistol shot wounds are pretty damn effective if left untreated. 22lr is the most successful killer out there yet it takes hours for a typical gunshot from a 22lr to stop the victim. little bitty hole takes a long time to leak out. great big hole means the liquid leaves faster.

if i am ever forced to use a firearm i want the biggest holes i can manage in the bad guy so he leaks fast and stops being a aggressive fast.

one shot stop if it happens is great and good but odds are the fight will continue after that first hit.

you can see it for yourself if you want. take two buckets with a .357 hole and one with a .451 hole plug them. attach string to each plug fill the bucket with 13 pints of water. pull both plugs at the same time. which drains faster?? that difference in time is how much time the goblin has to reload fire more rounds or pound the back of your head into the ground like what happened to zimmerman...

ill take the route that disables the bad guy faster to limit his oppurtunity for further evil actions.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM
thats not the reason why. the bigger hole is why i carry a 45. more liquid loss means the goblin ceases aggression faster.

one shot stop if it happens is great and good but odds are the fight will continue after that first hit..
The buckets are a valid example to your argument, but you forget to account recoil and muzzle flip to reaquire your target sight. Each bucket has only one hole, but you even said so yourself that odds are it would go on past that first hit.

In the same amount of time for you to shoot three or four 45 rounds in a bucket, I could argue you'd shoot five or six 9mm with twice as many holes in the same bucket
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SatoriNoir View Post
The buckets are a valid example to your argument, but you forget to account recoil and muzzle flip to reaquire your target sight. Each bucket has only one hole, but you even said so yourself that odds are it would go on past that first hit.

In the same amount of time for you to shoot three or four 45 rounds in a bucket, I could argue you'd shoot five or six 9mm with twice as many holes in the same bucket
That depends entirely on the gun. If you shoot a LC9 vs a officers size 1911, I'd argue the .45 is faster for follow up shots as it will have less felt recoil and less muzzle flip. The whole argument is just silly anyways and smacks of fanboyism to the 9th degree. Carry what you shoot best and call it day, I choose a 1911 most days because it is what fell most comfortable with and it's what I happen to shoot best, you carry whatever works for you.
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