Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > General Handgun Discussion > Brother Can You Spare a Magazine

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-26-2013, 07:06 PM   #81
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Jacksonville,FL
Posts: 2,831
Liked 1763 Times on 987 Posts
Likes Given: 1302

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumJunkie View Post
No, not made up. I know the store policy there. Employees are not allowed to carry a weapon and are told to hand over the money with no confrontation. It's a company policy. I have a buddy that is a district mgr for that company. Look to see how many have been fired for trying to stop a robbery in a McD's without a weapon even. The cash is insured and they honestly don't care about human resources.
Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. Even though most McDonald's stores are independently owned franchises it could easily be a condition of the franchise agreement.

Anyway, back to my point, I know the store was empty, but the store was still open, so let's say you were the lone customer when those four robbers came into the store. Just how may rounds would you want to have on you when the first bad guy pulled the trigger? Be honest now, and remember, you are probably going to miss at least once if you decide to fight back.

You've got four armed targets, all of them are probably moving, and there's a better than even chance that at least one of the four will be shooting at you after your first shot. How many rounds do you think you need? You think five will do it? How about eight?

There is a good possibility that in the time it took you to read this post the fight would be over. If you decided to fire, with a 5 shot revolver there is no way you won unless your first shot caused them all to run. With a standard capacity firearm, meaning ten rounds or less, your only chance to come out of this scenario in good shape is to seek cover and hope they don't notice you.

Now I know there are a couple people that will start screaming that this doesn't happen every day. For some reason I don't think those crew members at McDonalds will be impressed with that argument. I know I'm not.
__________________
Doc3402 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 07:24 PM   #82
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DrumJunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Here in the holler....
Posts: 4,823
Liked 1616 Times on 944 Posts
Likes Given: 1894

Default

Thing is it is way too easy to get wrapped up in the this or that situation and say no matter what you have you need more. Most the time I have a 8+1 1911 and that will be more than enough to deal with any situation. It was more than enough than I needed in my situations. I said earlier that in my case a 5 shot revolver would have dealt with the problem, and it would have. As in most civilian SD cases the citizen will fire three or less shots.
But if you really want to be prepared then I guess a 17 round cap 9mm with a couple/few extra mags and a BUG would be better because there could be a gang of 20 people. It could happen. But the odds are it wont. Civilians just don't find themselves in places like a police officer will. If I was getting in that situation I'd be getting the hell out because Mad Max is about to come over the hill for my gas.

Bottom line is there's no way to make sure you are ready for everything unless you have bullet proof car, Kevlar long johns and a belt fed rifle. BEcause we never know just what will happen. The odds are we wont need any of that and I wager that is why no one does that (outside of trashcanastan anyway). In the encounters I used a total of 5 rounds. I lived in Cincinnati at the time. No it's not the worst city out there but it could have easily been a bunch of people rather than the one at a time that was real life.

Like I said people can do what they want and I'm not looking down on them for doing it. I just don't agree and I have explained more than once on this thread why. But you want to carry the extra bulk that's just fine with me.

__________________

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

DrumJunkie is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 08:13 PM   #83
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Jacksonville,FL
Posts: 2,831
Liked 1763 Times on 987 Posts
Likes Given: 1302

Default

If it was one person I would say a 1911 or a moderate capacity .40 should be plenty. The thing with four is, unless they are shooting at you, as a civilian your best shot is to seek cover and decide from there. You have no duty to act, and in all reality I think even a LEO would give serious thought to engaging 4 people alone. The problem is you aren't always given a choice, especially if you're a LEO.

As far as the bulk you mentioned goes, good holsters can often make that a non-issue. I always carry a BUG when my primary is a revolver. I can draw faster than I can reload. In a padded ankle holster it takes about 5 minutes for me to forget my LCP is there. With a pistol I carry a spare mag in the watch pocket of my Levi's. Same thing. In a few minutes I forget it's there.

It's all personal preference, but one thing I swore many years ago was to always carry more ammo than I thought I would need. All you have to do is run out once and it makes a believer out of you.

__________________
Doc3402 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2013, 02:14 AM   #84
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,421
Liked 837 Times on 484 Posts
Likes Given: 338

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
Yes, please.

You are embarrassing yourself there, maybe trolling.

OK, so you don't know. Of course there is a correlation -- that's what much of this is about; what the walking-armories' defense is. No play on words intended, again, but the salient point is whether or not a rational person should be armed for every insanely potential situation vs. most-probable-however-still-unlikely. If there were no correlation between any given circumstance you could find yourself in and its outcome than it wouldn't matter what kind of gun you carry -- a single shot flintlock pocket pistol would be about as useful as a 20+1 round Five-seveN.

Because it quickly begins to speak volumes as to the reasonableness of the carrying individual. Are you seriously taking the position that someone concealing 10 handguns on their person doesn't have a problem? That they're as normal, judicious, and safe a member of the community as you yourself would claim (anyway) to be!?

You tell me.

You keep going to drink from this embarrassing well when you know full well we aren't talking about the LEO's or soldiers you are preoccupied with, but talking more about the kooks who want or need to pretend they are by carrying like one. Once again, you are missing the key point. Or trolling...

So common sense and laws are paranoia, if only when you want to do something else -- interesting, antisocial, philosophy. I personally think people should be watched and disarmed when their very own actions demonstrate that they are mentally unstable, a danger to themselves and others. Apparently we'll have to "agree to disagree" on that.
I guess you feel the need to control other people, even when their behavior has no bearing on your personal life apart from what goes on between your ears. They have pills for that. If medication isn't your thing, you could always become a politician.

By suggesting that civilians are just as likely to be on the receiving end of criminal activity as the police are and that there's nothing wrong with them being armed like the police are? How is that trolling?

Carrying an extra magazine or backup gun is equivalent to being a walking armory? You think you are rational because you carry a gun or don't carry a gun or carry 1 gun or magazine vs someone else carrying 2 guns or 2 magazines? That's as fallacious a logical leap as any I've ever heard, but feel free to immerse yourself in your own reality.

Feel free to interject your own beliefs about said person carrying 0, 1, or 10 guns as you will- it won't make your presumptions about their state of mind any more or less congruent with their actual state of mind.

Plenty of law abiding citizens and law abiding police officers and military personnel carry more than 1 gun and/or more than 1 magazine. The fact that you can't conceive of the ability of a civilian to carry more than 1 gun or magazine and not be a criminal says more about your limited mental capacity and/or irrational belief structure than it does about the ability of people carrying more than 1 gun or magazine to follow the laws regarding the carrying and use of weapons.

What's embarrassing is that you, presumably an adult although what you write about other people who don't share your sensibilities brings that presumption into question, think that anyone who doesn't share your sensibilities is irrational and needs to be disarmed. Most crazy people think that only their viewpoints on an issue are sane or rational and everyone else is crazy, which kinda demonstrates for all to see who is really crazy. What's so special about law enforcement officers that open carry and carrying more than 1 gun and/or magazine is perfectly normal/sane/rational for them but absolutely crazy for civilians? Either law enforcement officers are irrational and need to be disarmed because they open carry, carry more than 1 magazine, and sometimes carry more than 1 gun or they are responding rationally to a demonstrated threat against their lives. The life of a law enforcement officer is not more valuable than my life or your life.

Should "common sense", as you believe it to be, apply to everyone else? Still busy demonstrating who actually lacks rationality? Yes, people need to be disarmed when their actions demonstrate mental instability or prove to be dangerous to themselves or others. I'm sure that you do, but apparently not many other people make the connection between carrying a spare magazine and mental instability or there would be a law against carrying a spare magazine and an order to arrest anyone so doing on suspicion that they were likely not mentally stable.

Your commentary makes me think you're overly sensitive to other people who don't share your sensibilities and you have an irrational desire to control other people who don't share your sensibilities. Either that, or you don't actually believe or practice what you espouse.
__________________
kbd512 is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2013, 05:50 AM   #85
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
tCan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wake, NC
Posts: 1,128
Liked 112 Times on 78 Posts
Likes Given: 85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumJunkie View Post
Civilians just don't find themselves in places like a police officer will.
What?
__________________
[Remington 870 12GA][Stoeger Model 3500 12GA][Savage 116 .30-06][Savage Model 10 Bull Barrel .223][Marlin 336SS .30-30][Marlin 39A .22][Marlin Model 60 22LR][Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm][Ruger MkIII 22LR]

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Terry V Ohio Commentary
tCan is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2013, 05:54 AM   #86
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Axxe55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: East Texas, Texas!
Posts: 26,806
Liked 19522 Times on 11081 Posts
Likes Given: 49157

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tCan View Post
What?
i think DJ meant that civilians don't go purposely into dangerous situations like LEO's do. we as civilians may find ourselves in similiar situations, but it's not our job or place to place ourselves there.
__________________
Axxe55 is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2013, 02:27 PM   #87
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: The Free State of Winston, AL
Posts: 2,567
Liked 1563 Times on 932 Posts
Likes Given: 778

Default

The most responsible people in the world are those who except the responsibility to go about their daily business armed! It does not matter if they do this as a profession (LEO'S) or as concerned citizens. As to how much armament they choose to carry, well as I said earlier, I would rather 'have more than I need, rather than less than is need, when it come to life threatening situations'!

__________________

An armed society is not always a polite society, but it is a free and safe society!
Self Defense is an absolute and natural right!
Keep your head down and your powder dry!

JimRau is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2013, 02:44 PM   #88
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,617
Liked 813 Times on 621 Posts
Likes Given: 125

Default

kbd, you failed to actually respond, or understand again, and are just repeating yourself that can best be summed up as:

  • It's all good, man.
  • I really like guys in uniform!
__________________
HockaLouis is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2013, 04:39 PM   #89
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DrumJunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Here in the holler....
Posts: 4,823
Liked 1616 Times on 944 Posts
Likes Given: 1894

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc3402 View Post
If it was one person I would say a 1911 or a moderate capacity .40 should be plenty. The thing with four is, unless they are shooting at you, as a civilian your best shot is to seek cover and decide from there. You have no duty to act, and in all reality I think even a LEO would give serious thought to engaging 4 people alone. The problem is you aren't always given a choice, especially if you're a LEO.

As far as the bulk you mentioned goes, good holsters can often make that a non-issue. I always carry a BUG when my primary is a revolver. I can draw faster than I can reload. In a padded ankle holster it takes about 5 minutes for me to forget my LCP is there. With a pistol I carry a spare mag in the watch pocket of my Levi's. Same thing. In a few minutes I forget it's there.

It's all personal preference, but one thing I swore many years ago was to always carry more ammo than I thought I would need. All you have to do is run out once and it makes a believer out of you.
That's cool. Like I said people should be able to choose what they believe is the best for them. It's not that I'm against carrying or having high cap mags and the like, quite the opposite actually. I just don't believe it is practical ad I have real world experience to draw on for that opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tCan View Post
What?
Simple..Do you drive around looking for bad people and go after them?
Are you a bounty hunter?
Does dispatch call you and send you into harms way?

I'm betting you answer no to all these questions. Civilians don't need to carry what police do because they are not dropped ass deep into crap every day. I honestly don't know how you missed my explanation. When I start believing I need three mags and a BUG in an ankle rig I'll move. Because apparently I'm in a really bad place.

Again..Carry all you want. But honestly if you are walking through places where you need 30+ rounds of ammo consider finding another supermarket or just move. I'm 100% in favor of citizens having 100 round drums for their pistols if that's what they want. I just don't see the practical application other than the range.

I come by my opinion because sadly because I have had to use a weapon to protect myself. That and I have looked through many other incidents where civilian and needed a gun to protect themselves.
Believe me when I tell you things get really fast in a hurry. It wont be like on TV where there's time to rack a slide to chamber a round then roll for cover emptying a mag, letting it drop while slamming another one. Even though it might seem like forever it's over in seconds. I pray to God you never have to learn this first hand.

Simple fact of the matter in a civilian SD situation it's usually three shots or less. I find it much more important to know my equipment works properly and I can put the round where I need to in a hurry. It's why I practice almost daily. I also am almost anal about making sure the mags and pistols I carry are in perfect working order. If I thought it might not work perfectly I wouldn't carry it.
__________________

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

DrumJunkie is offline  
axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 05:46 AM   #90
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
tCan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wake, NC
Posts: 1,128
Liked 112 Times on 78 Posts
Likes Given: 85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumJunkie View Post
Simple..Do you drive around looking for bad people and go after them?
Are you a bounty hunter?
Does dispatch call you and send you into harms way?

I'm betting you answer no to all these questions. Civilians don't need to carry what police do because they are not dropped ass deep into crap every day. I honestly don't know how you missed my explanation. When I start believing I need three mags and a BUG in an ankle rig I'll move. Because apparently I'm in a really bad place.

Again..Carry all you want. But honestly if you are walking through places where you need 30+ rounds of ammo consider finding another supermarket or just move. I'm 100% in favor of citizens having 100 round drums for their pistols if that's what they want. I just don't see the practical application other than the range.

I come by my opinion because sadly because I have had to use a weapon to protect myself. That and I have looked through many other incidents where civilian and needed a gun to protect themselves.
Believe me when I tell you things get really fast in a hurry. It wont be like on TV where there's time to rack a slide to chamber a round then roll for cover emptying a mag, letting it drop while slamming another one. Even though it might seem like forever it's over in seconds. I pray to God you never have to learn this first hand.

Simple fact of the matter in a civilian SD situation it's usually three shots or less. I find it much more important to know my equipment works properly and I can put the round where I need to in a hurry. It's why I practice almost daily. I also am almost anal about making sure the mags and pistols I carry are in perfect working order. If I thought it might not work perfectly I wouldn't carry it.
I give up. Your monologue has me convinced.

I would bet you're the type that likes to run off at the mouth. Especially when someone disagrees. Which is a shame given your profession.
__________________
[Remington 870 12GA][Stoeger Model 3500 12GA][Savage 116 .30-06][Savage Model 10 Bull Barrel .223][Marlin 336SS .30-30][Marlin 39A .22][Marlin Model 60 22LR][Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm][Ruger MkIII 22LR]

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Terry V Ohio Commentary

Last edited by tCan; 05-28-2013 at 05:50 AM.
tCan is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Spare mag(s)? shorterj88 Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 40 03-22-2013 04:03 AM
Anyone got a spare........ AgentTikki AR-15 Discussion 15 02-21-2013 08:54 PM
spare parts? hawkguy AR-15 Discussion 2 12-11-2012 12:13 AM
What should be in an AR spare parts kit? JTJ AR-15 Discussion 14 09-14-2012 02:40 PM
Spare AR-15 bkt AR-15 Discussion 39 12-05-2010 12:55 PM