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Old 06-20-2013, 05:37 PM   #51
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If one must carry a small single-stack (thinking PM9/Shield/XDs), then capacity can't even factor in. Sometimes you just have to carry a small gun.

Not to spark a caliber war, but how does 5+1 of 45acp (XDs) compare to 7+1 of 9mm (PM9)? How about 13+1 of 45acp (G21/XDm45) compared to 17+1 of 9mm (G17/SR9)?

Dress and situation determine the class of gun one must choose (pocket/small IWB/Full size), but then we can choose how much of what type of ammo to carry in that class.
Do a little research and you will find a 45 with a bbl of less than 4.25 is BAD NEWS! You are literally going back 100 years in terminal ballistics. The 45 is a low velocity round and it does not like short bbls, plain and simple!
The 9 on the other hand is probably the most efficient short bbl round ever developed. When you figure in ALL the factors (magazine capacity, recoil, terminal ballistics, and size) it is just common sense to go with a 9 if you are going to a 'short' barreled handgun.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:01 PM   #52
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That's an even better drill if you have a friend with a stopwatch. Get them to time you the first two times. After that try to safely beat your own times. Once you reach a plateau have the friend call out different targets.

The really sad part is that this is good practice, but most of us will never have a chance to do it. Between the lawyers and the insurance companies most of the shooters out there are limited to slow fire paper punching.
I was going to chime in on the timed part but thats tough with one person . I have 2 places I can go and set up this way I just take my own PVC stands and cardboard man targets and set them up . I practice on the move as much as time allows me . The first 5 or 6 times of doing this I became very frustrated because of how terrible my shot placement was but after more practice and a few broken target frames I have become fairly proficient at it even using a AR and handgun combo .
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:11 PM   #53
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Do a little research and you will find a 45 with a bbl of less than 4.25 is BAD NEWS! You are literally going back 100 years in terminal ballistics. The 45 is a low velocity round and it does not like short bbls, plain and simple!
The 9 on the other hand is probably the most efficient short bbl round ever developed. When you figure in ALL the factors (magazine capacity, recoil, terminal ballistics, and size) it is just common sense to go with a 9 if you are going to a 'short' barreled handgun.
You are correct , however polygonal rifling helps with accuracy on these shorter barrels . I can say that Im more accurate with my P229 9mm than any other hand gun I own but second in line in my Kahr P45 then my XDS45 with a 3.3" barrel out to 20 yards . Its a CCW handgun its made for CQ confrontation its not made to be a 50 yard target pistol . Would I rather have the P229 16 rds of 9mm than the 6 rds of .45 for CCW ? NO!!! #1 the P229 does not make a fabulous CCW gun for me , its big and chunky and if I ran out of ammo it would make a killer club being all metal . Dont get me wrong I love it and I shoot it alot but we have to compare apples to apples . I wouldnt trade my XDS45 for a XDS9 just to gain 2 more rounds if were comparing apples to apples . I just prefer more knockdown power of the .45 at CQ range than the 9mm . Its all personal preference really , if a person doesnt like the muzzle rise on the .45 and they shoot the XDS9 better then so be it , again its a personal preference for any shooter . Shoot what your comfortable with and what you shoot best with or you will never have the confidence in your gun or your self
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:13 AM   #54
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You are correct , however polygonal rifling helps with accuracy on these shorter barrels . I can say that Im more accurate with my P229 9mm than any other hand gun I own but second in line in my Kahr P45 then my XDS45 with a 3.3" barrel out to 20 yards . Its a CCW handgun its made for CQ confrontation its not made to be a 50 yard target pistol . Would I rather have the P229 16 rds of 9mm than the 6 rds of .45 for CCW ? NO!!! #1 the P229 does not make a fabulous CCW gun for me , its big and chunky and if I ran out of ammo it would make a killer club being all metal . Dont get me wrong I love it and I shoot it alot but we have to compare apples to apples . I wouldnt trade my XDS45 for a XDS9 just to gain 2 more rounds if were comparing apples to apples . I just prefer more knockdown power of the .45 at CQ range than the 9mm . Its all personal preference really , if a person doesnt like the muzzle rise on the .45 and they shoot the XDS9 better then so be it , again its a personal preference for any shooter . Shoot what your comfortable with and what you shoot best with or you will never have the confidence in your gun or your self
First, there is no such thing as 'knock down power'. Second, if you use the best defense ammo on the market today there is no realistic difference in the ability to stop the fight if you are talking 9,40, or 45 (in service size weapons). Third, you missed the point I was making about the short barrel. A 45 loses so much velocity with a barrel shorter than 4.25 inches (Commander length) that it like shooting a 1800 cap and ball load, small hole in and probably nothing out, not enough velocity to get good bullet performance (expansion and penetration). Don't take my word for it, do some research on your own, you will be enlightened if you do.
Personal preference should be based on fact, not myth and emotion if you want to survive in this world.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:24 AM   #55
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First, there is no such thing as 'knock down power'. Second, if you use the best defense ammo on the market today there is no realistic difference in the ability to stop the fight if you are talking 9,40, or 45 (in service size weapons). Third, you missed the point I was making about the short barrel. A 45 loses so much velocity with a barrel shorter than 4.25 inches (Commander length) that it like shooting a 1800 cap and ball load, small hole in and probably nothing out, not enough velocity to get good bullet performance (expansion and penetration). Don't take my word for it, do some research on your own, you will be enlightened if you do.
Personal preference should be based on fact, not myth and emotion if you want to survive in this world.
I didnt doubt u on the lower velocity , I know with a shorter barrel comes lower velocity . This is true in most any gun regardless of caliber . Personal preference is personal preference no matter how u look at it wether its a fact or myth , I like my.45 better than my 9mm for ccw " thats my personal preference wether its slower or not ." I will take 5 shots of .45 over 5 shots of 9mm because its my choice
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:54 AM   #56
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I don't care what the numbers say. I still believe that big bullets are better than little bullets.

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Old 06-21-2013, 02:58 AM   #57
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My S&W 9mm has a 16 round magazine and I always carry a spare. If I think I might be going to a place that is shady I carry three spare magazines (belt holster). To each his own but I would rather be safe than sorry.

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Old 06-21-2013, 03:25 AM   #58
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People don't necessarily carry a spare only for the off chance they run dry. Mag failures, as has been mentioned before, are a big reason.

People carry guns because they don't know if they'll need it; CCW is based on the "what if". If you're carrying a gun because you might need it, carrying an extra mag because you may also need it doesn't sound all that far fetched.
Yeah I've read and laugh that one off as well. You can clear a jam just as, if not more so, timely as you can swap a mag.

It does sound far fetched to me, extremely so, but to each their own.
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:27 AM   #59
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I guess I am a real idiot because I have changed a lot of magazines in a gunfights! These were M-16 mags, but they were mags in a 'gunfight'! With the gang and flashmob crap we see in our urban areas to day it is not unrealistic to find yourself in a 'riot' situation and thus the NEED for more not less ammo. It is not inconvenient or uncomfortable to carry extra ammo so why not do it??????
Civilian vs LE or military, hardly comparable circumstances, but sure, of course. ; D
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:40 AM   #60
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I carry a Glock 17 and I think that 18 rounds of 9MM is about right.

Assume an assault by 3 people or less. Anymore than that and it really doesn't matter how many bullets your pistol holds.

Assume you will miss 50% of the time... or more.

Assume it will take 2 to the chest and 1 to the head to stop someone.

The math says I have enough rounds for the worst case scenario where I have some slim chance of living through the ordeal.

I don't typically bother with an extra magazine, but if you think you'll need more, then carry an extra magazine.

I assume I'll spend a lot more time looking for cover, identifying threats, and looking for escape routes than shooting people.

That's an awful lot of assumptions, but I'm an optimist.

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