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Old 06-20-2013, 11:36 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Devin556 View Post
I look at several different things when picking a firearm that all rank at the same level of importance. As fat as mag capacity goes I look at number of rounds versus type of carry. My main carry is my Ruger SR9 with 17+1 and an extra mag of 17. I also carry a Taurus TCP that holds 6+1 as a back up. So at any given time I will have 42 rounds of a mix of 9mm and 380. I shoot regularly and run different practices to try and stay sharp, but I've never been shot at before. I highly doubt I'll be able to group my shots with a target that shoots back. Between adrenaline, fear, and a bad vase of the shakes when I get angry, upset, or any other emotion I'll probably do good to even be close to my target. So, yes, I look at mag capacity when choosing a firearm. It factors in with everything else.
At long last a touch of realism is injected into the argument. You are one of the few I have ever seen that realizes and admits you will probably miss with at least some of your shots. If we had one hit for every shot fired during wartime the entire world would be spending dollars and speaking English. Sort of shoots that over-penetration crap right in the butt, doesn't it?
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:49 AM   #42
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I agree with Devin556. Itll be hard to be accurate when under fire. However my biggest reason for carrying spare mags is that I use a semi auto and the mag is the weakest parts. If I only have one and it fails to feed or whatever, I now have an expensive hammer. I'd rather be able to drop the problem mag and reload and continue the fight. Plus id rather carry 40 rounds and have 30-35 extra than carry 7 and need one or two more.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:56 AM   #43
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As most threads do, this one seems to have drifted a little from it's original intent. It was initially about how big a factor magazine capacity was in choosing a handgun, then sort of morphed into whether to carry extra magazines or not.

I believe in what was said earlier in this thread: that it is best to carry the most gun and the most ammo that one feels comfortable doing so. However, although I follow this reasoning with regard to a firearm, I don't follow through on packing an extra mag or two. Oh, they're in the car, but not on my person.

What this thread caused me to to is re-examine my everyday practice. I realized that my carry habits are based on my potentially being attacked by one, or at most two "goblins". Now, I realize that the odds of my ever needing to use a gun to defend myself against more than one attacker are slight. However, there is a tenent of warfare that says you should prepare for what the enemy can do, not what you think they will do.

Frankly, not carrying an extra mag is partially a matter of convenience -- it's easier just to clip the holster inside my waistband and go. It's also a matter of not feeling underarmed with only seven rounds, but what's the harm in adding another mag to my daily carry? Better to have and not need, than need and not have, right? Even if I do feel a little silly.

This thread has gotten me to re-examine my current carry practice. I may or may not wind up doing things differently, but I'm going to do some thinking on it.

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Old 06-20-2013, 12:19 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by txpossum View Post
As most threads do, this one seems to have drifted a little from it's original intent. It was initially about how big a factor magazine capacity was in choosing a handgun, then sort of morphed into whether to carry extra magazines or not.

I believe in what was said earlier in this thread: that it is best to carry the most gun and the most ammo that one feels comfortable doing so. However, although I follow this reasoning with regard to a firearm, I don't follow through on packing an extra mag or two. Oh, they're in the car, but not on my person.

What this thread caused me to to is re-examine my everyday practice. I realized that my carry habits are based on my potentially being attacked by one, or at most two "goblins". Now, I realize that the odds of my ever needing to use a gun to defend myself against more than one attacker are slight. However, there is a tenent of warfare that says you should prepare for what the enemy can do, not what you think they will do.

Frankly, not carrying an extra mag is partially a matter of convenience -- it's easier just to clip the holster inside my waistband and go. It's also a matter of not feeling underarmed with only seven rounds, but what's the harm in adding another mag to my daily carry? Better to have and not need, than need and not have, right? Even if I do feel a little silly.

This thread has gotten me to re-examine my current carry practice. I may or may not wind up doing things differently, but I'm going to do some thinking on it.
Im a big proponent of having more than you think you need because the evil that is out there has an alarming habit of doing things you didnt plan for.

I always have a ruger lcp 6+1 of 380acp fmj. Its not my ideal choice, but my circumstances dictate its the biggest thing i can carry so as to not violate rule #1. When i can i carry an xdm with 13+1 45acp or my beretta compact

I would prefer to have my bcm carbine strapped to my back everyday but i cant.
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:21 PM   #45
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For a potential self-defense handgun (not a range toy), i want more capacity mainly due to how slowly i run; i might need the 26 rounds in my XD45 and spare mag to get myself out of the area.


Also, i have considered the potential for a bear encounter and want to be able to make the bear suffer.

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Old 06-20-2013, 12:43 PM   #46
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I think there's a huge difference between buying a gun because it has a high capacity and carrying extra mags.

One seems logical, the other idiotic, to me. As if you'd have the time to change a magazine in a gun fight. Laughable. Shoot until threat eliminated or bullets gone, then run or start kicking balls into throats.

Sure, one can create all the supportive scenarios they want to justify their spare mag or gun, but in the end, this is how I will always see it... frantic paranoia and overthetopization.
I guess I am a real idiot because I have changed a lot of magazines in a gunfights! These were M-16 mags, but they were mags in a 'gunfight'! With the gang and flashmob crap we see in our urban areas to day it is not unrealistic to find yourself in a 'riot' situation and thus the NEED for more not less ammo. It is not inconvenient or uncomfortable to carry extra ammo so why not do it??????
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:32 PM   #47
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This thread, like countless ones of a similar type, is not only very interesting, but needed, and instructional as well. I am of the "plan for the worst and hope for the best" camp. And this discussion is good to make us all think. Mental rehearsal has also been found to be surprisingly effective in improving almost any physical endeavor.

As some have described, in a SHTF situation, the human body goes through changes. The BAR (body alarm response) condition, no matter what your level of training or experience, kicks in during these times. And because of this involuntary condition, we each can expect to revert to our lowest level of training. So, no matter how good you are standing on the range with your buddies, expect most of that to go out the window when the time comes. The BAR includes a spike in BP, adrenaline dump, tunnel vision, freezing, nervousness, fight or flight, etc.

Then there are the statistics/probabilities to be considered. Most "gunfights" occur in low light conditions at distances of 3-5 yds and are over in 3-10 seconds. But those are just averages, and EVERY situation is different! And the averages are thankfully, much in our favor that we will never be in a gun fight.

So if the OP's question is what capacity to choose, I would answer; as much as you can carry in that mag, since you may very likely not have time for a mag change. And a higher cap mag is MUCH faster than even the fastest mag change. Especially in a SHTF situation!

There are also the practical and subjective considerations on how much you can carry and conceal with different body types, clothing and dressing styles. If I could comfortably carry my XD-9(M) with 19 +1, I would. And instead of just an extra mag, i would also carry an XD-40 Sub Compact as "New York reload". But we tend to be creatures of habit and comfort. So while we have a nice 1911, it may end up staying the safe, while we carry a small .22 pistol in the pocket because it is more comfortable, lighter and easier to conceal.

So while the choices are almost endless due to the subjective nature of this decision, the most important variable is practice, practice, practice. Practice your tactics, since shot placement is certainly king. And under the influences of BAR you can expect to be much less accurate. Competition/match shooting like IDPA and three-gun matches do offer simulated shooting under stress conditions, and of course in the case of vets, there is nothing like on the job training, though most of us will never come close to this type of instruction.

In short, carry as many rounds in a mag as you can/will, an extra mag if possible, and be proficient/practiced with that piece. Just my .02. YMMV.

Shoot safe.

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Old 06-20-2013, 03:10 PM   #48
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If one must carry a small single-stack (thinking PM9/Shield/XDs), then capacity can't even factor in. Sometimes you just have to carry a small gun.

Not to spark a caliber war, but how does 5+1 of 45acp (XDs) compare to 7+1 of 9mm (PM9)? How about 13+1 of 45acp (G21/XDm45) compared to 17+1 of 9mm (G17/SR9)?

Dress and situation determine the class of gun one must choose (pocket/small IWB/Full size), but then we can choose how much of what type of ammo to carry in that class.

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Old 06-20-2013, 05:31 PM   #49
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I dont think the average shooter understands how a high stress situation changes the game . Want to try it for yourself . Set up 6 targets 10 yards apart at various distances 7 yards - 20 yards . Now run from target 1 to target 6 with your weapon holstered , stop and fire 3 rounds as quickly as possible , run to target 5 , 4 , 3 ,2 ,1 all the same way and let me know how many center mass hits you have , I think alot of people would be surprised how many dont hit their intended target let alone center mass . I wouldnt even call this a high stress environment shoot but you will see what its like to be pumped up , out of breath and jittery while trying to shoot and doing mag changes . Its not as easy as you think unless you practice it alot

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Old 06-20-2013, 05:35 PM   #50
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I dont think the average shooter understands how a high stress situation changes the game . Want to try it for yourself . Set up 6 targets 10 yards apart at various distances 7 yards - 20 yards . Now run from target 1 to target 6 with your weapon holstered , stop and fire 3 rounds as quickly as possible , run to target 5 , 4 , 3 ,2 ,1 all the same way and let me know how many center mass hits you have , I think alot of people would be surprised how many dont hit their intended let alone center mass . I wouldnt even call this a high stress environment shoot but you will see what its like to be pumped up , out of breath and jittery while trying to shoot and doing mag changes . Its not as easy as you think unless you practice it alot
That's an even better drill if you have a friend with a stopwatch. Get them to time you the first two times. After that try to safely beat your own times. Once you reach a plateau have the friend call out different targets.

The really sad part is that this is good practice, but most of us will never have a chance to do it. Between the lawyers and the insurance companies most of the shooters out there are limited to slow fire paper punching.
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