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Old 11-16-2013, 05:36 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by 1911love View Post
I saw some at a LGS for the first time since around 2000 or 2001. IIRC, it's the only product Winchester ever took off the shelves that wasn't defective or had poor sales figures. The owner bought a bunch of stuff in an estate sale and they were included. He was asking $60 or $70 a box. Does anyone know what market value is for 20 round boxes of .45ACP Black Talons?

Remember how dangerous and racist these bullets were? The funny thing is Winchester still sells the same thing(SXT) under a different name and they aren't black anymore.
Having worked in the operating room, I had heard the Black Talons were pulled because they were a concern with doctors treating people wounded with this type of bullet. The bullet is designed to open up and have hooks,(or talons, I guess) at intervals around the flattened bullet. A major concern to people working in the OR is blood borne disease like AIDS and Hepatitis. The Talons represent a finger stick hazard, puncturing gloves, when wounds are probed. I don't know that there was anything racist about the Black Talons, and don't know how Winchester got away with producing another bullet that was pretty much the same. Black Talons have a mystique now, and I am sure somebody will pay a lot to own some. I have one left I saved myself.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:09 AM   #32
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Sharp pointy edges on a JHP? You mean like these...



image-2895309202.jpg



image-2520459133.jpg



image-2770120582.jpg



image-3415137609.jpg

I'm pretty sure these aren't all winchester.

The goal of a JHP is to create an expanded wound channel and increase the chances of slicing through a vein or an artery. Bullet manufacturers aren't concerned with making it easy for the doctors to remove their bullets. Nor should they be IMO.

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Old 11-16-2013, 03:23 PM   #33
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Look at all them perty flowers! (Those Barnes are WICKED also, I carry them in my .45.)

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Old 11-16-2013, 09:24 PM   #34
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Having worked in the operating room, I had heard the Black Talons were pulled because they were a concern with doctors treating people wounded with this type of bullet. The bullet is designed to open up and have hooks,(or talons, I guess) at intervals around the flattened bullet. A major concern to people working in the OR is blood borne disease like AIDS and Hepatitis. The Talons represent a finger stick hazard, puncturing gloves, when wounds are probed. I don't know that there was anything racist about the Black Talons, and don't know how Winchester got away with producing another bullet that was pretty much the same. Black Talons have a mystique now, and I am sure somebody will pay a lot to own some. I have one left I saved myself.
No, they were pulled because of a smear campaign by the pro-criminal left. Politicians, doctors and handrwringers united to decry the bullet as "too inhumane". Bunch of freaking idiots. The same class of morons who made frangible bullets illegal under the Hague Accords. "Oh, we don't want to actually KILL them, just shoot a few holes in them until they stop their bad behavior".

The SXT is the SAME BULLET w/o the evil black coating. Evil black bullets, evil black rifles, evil black people? Do you see a pattern in their pathological way of thinking?
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:26 PM   #35
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No, they were pulled because of a smear campaign by the pro-criminal left. Politicians, doctors and handrwringers united to decry the bullet as "too inhumane". Bunch of freaking idiots. The same class of morons who made frangible bullets illegal under the Hague Accords. "Oh, we don't want to actually KILL them, just shoot a few holes in them until they stop their bad behavior".

The SXT is the SAME BULLET w/o the evil black coating. Evil black bullets, evil black rifles, evil black people? Do you see a pattern in their pathological way of thinking?
I knew the SXT was the same bullet, but is it still coated with Lubalox, just not black Lubalox?
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:26 PM   #36
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And, yes, I am sick of calling "them" anti-gunners. Call them what they actually are PRO-CRIMINAL!

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Old 11-16-2013, 09:35 PM   #37
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No, they were pulled because of a smear campaign by the pro-criminal left. Politicians, doctors and handrwringers united to decry the bullet as "too inhumane". Bunch of freaking idiots. The same class of morons who made frangible bullets illegal under the Hague Accords. "Oh, we don't want to actually KILL them, just shoot a few holes in them until they stop their bad behavior".

The SXT is the SAME BULLET w/o the evil black coating. Evil black bullets, evil black rifles, evil black people? Do you see a pattern in their pathological way of thinking?
I did not know frangible bullets are banned by The Hague. They didn't even exist then. Have they fallen nto the fragmentation category, retroactively? Are they proven to cause injuries less humane than the roundnoses?
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Old 11-17-2013, 12:50 AM   #38
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I did not know frangible bullets are banned by The Hague. They didn't even exist then. Have they fallen nto the fragmentation category, retroactively? Are they proven to cause injuries less humane than the roundnoses?
Expanding and frangible bullets are illegal for combat use under the Hague conventions. Of course, as I understand it, these rules only apply to organized standing armies. Terrorists and rebels can use whatever they want.
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Old 11-17-2013, 01:07 AM   #39
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I did not know frangible bullets are banned by The Hague. They didn't even exist then. Have they fallen nto the fragmentation category, retroactively? Are they proven to cause injuries less humane than the roundnoses?
The Dum Dum arsenal in India had loaded some rounds with the open end of the jacketed bullet facing forward. British soldiers noted that the wounds were much more severe than the standard way if loading a "full patch" bullet.

That was when dum dum rounds, soft points, and hollow points got their start. The Hague convention addressed these rounds as cruel or causing undo suffering.
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Old 11-17-2013, 02:10 AM   #40
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Frangible ammo is relatively new and radically different from the expanding bullets banned by The Hague. As some of you may know, they are used primarily as training rounds in close quarters. They are often made non-toxic. (Before someone inhales to say Glaser, yes I know this niche product) Frangible ammo has no role in warfare. I am surprised to learn it's banned. I appreciate accurate info even more than accurate shooting.

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